Then there were three...

[Peter T]

The manual says ARNICA 46 hydraulic oil for the actuator. I'm assuming that any decent ISO 46 hydraulic oil will do? The BMW lads seem happy to slop Jack oil into theirs but I think I'll try for something a bit closer to spec

Don't you just get frustrated waiting for mail from foreign lands. I've got belts and switches and stuff coming from France, Holland, Telford... all over the place really  ::::::

Edit: of course, the Telford delivery came 10 minutes after I posted that   just got to wait for the belt coming from Italy now.

I passed by my local agricultural engineers today and nipped in to ask after iso 46 just on the off chance. He produced a 5 gal drum "how much do you want?" Says he. I produced an empty coke bottle from the car "That much" says I. "£1.50" says He. Kubota branded, should be fine. 

[Dave Milnes]

Mine's been operating fine on trolley jack oil since about 2006, no idea what grade!

[Peter T]

 :: :: ::

I bet my 46 was cheaper than your trolley jack oil though. Having said that... I already have a bottle of trolley jack oil... Doh!  Mine's ISO 30, seemed like a bit of a leap to 46 to me. Might make the motor work a little harder I guess?

[Peter T]

Did a stack of testing on the centre stand and it's control circuits this afternoon. Bench tested the actuator and checked fluid, all good. Got both stand switches working fine by replacing the white connectors with bullets. I also improved the operation of the right hand switch by removing the rubber gaiter and squirting switch cleaner down the plunger, then spinning the plunger to help clean the contacts. Then packed the gaiter with dielectric grease. I'll still replace it when the new one comes. Every connector and relay I see is getting the grease treatment too, some of the relays' connectors are dreadful There is a broken contact somewhere in the grey wire to switch part of the circuit though. It checks out fine to the stand ecu but there is a break between the switch and the two relays. The connection between the two relays themselves is fine (I'm assuming that it's one of the two grey wires from the primary relay.) so I guess that the other grey wire connects to the bar switch somewhere in the loom and that this is where the fault is. But which one? And where does it connect? Anyone got any clues before I just bypass both? I figure if I run a new, grey wire from the secondary relay up to the handlebar switch that will do the business. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: BTW, is the secondary relay supposed to be rattling about under the foot board? Seems it should have a proper fixing point

Edit 2 There's a diode? Just been looking for clues in the wiring diagram and there's a diode between the relays and the handlebar switch/ecu. Anyone know where this is located?

[Peter T]

Been out for another play this morning knowing, as I now do, that the checks on grey wires from limit switches to handlebar switch are polarity sensitive. They check out fine and I now have the by-pass trick working. Purple to orange allows the motor to operate and it lifts the bike fine.

Because everything else checks out, ie all the pins in the ecu connector are doing what they should be doing, I'm thinking that the ecu it's self may be mashed. I don't suppose there is a bench test for this other than try another one?  

In the mean time I'm thinking that, if I send the purple and yellow wires to the left hand limit switch, I can run the by-pass trick but the stand will stop in the deployed position before the motor starts blowing its fuse. Not beaten yet.

Edit. Works a treat. The hydraulics take the bike over the point of no return then shut off instantly.

one end soldered onto dress makers pins.



The other connected to the limit switch.



Also, if I could place a 5A relay in the same circuit and activate it using the oil warning lamp, I'd have a centre stand that wouldn't activate while the engine is running. Might need a bigger battery though, just a thought.

However, the object of the exercise is to get the stand running as Piaggio intended. Does anyone have a spare stand controller I can try?   I don't fancy spending £200 on one just on the off chance. Either that or if anyone is planning work with the left side panel off, would you try my controller?

Edit 2: Found one in Italy and one on a car boot website in France at £50ish each. Might take a punt on one of them.

[Dave Milnes]

That's basically all the control box does, it's just yet more relays triggered by the limit switches closing and in addition it has the warning sounder triggered when the two limit switches get out of phase. Doing the bypass alone usually still has the bleeper sounding all the time and the cure for that is to snip the wires on the back where they just appear out of the potting. If yours is not making a peep then either it's died internally or the bleeper has just burned out from being permanently sounding or it's been snipped already.
New boxes are both expensive and hard to find and chances are used ones are dud.
You probably don't want to make it not work with the engine running as it saps a lot of power and is better if you keep the engine running until you have got the bike up on it's stand then give the motor a slight lift to put some charge back into the battery, if the battery was ever a bit low and you turned off the motor before deploying the stand it may either give up and drop back down unexpectedly and catch you out, or work fine and kill the battery so next time it won't start.

[Peter T]

Yep, that's what I'd thought. I'm going to press the gamble button on a £50 controller from France. If that doesn't work I'll formalise the bypass without the oil light relay. I figure you'd have to be trying really hard to accidentally deploy the stand while in motion.

[Peter T]

Another fruitful day in the shed.

I made the bypass official and fitted rear foot peg extenders and sat Mrs T aboard. Pressed the stand button with crossed fingers...

                    ... No chance.

I wonder if my actuator is a bit tired, I have a spare now, think ill try that and if it doesn't work I might consider shoe horning a BMW unit in. In the meantime I'm liking being able to stand the bike up on the button. Much easier in the confines of the shed.  
Had a wonderful ride out. Dr Pulleys and K&N are making a significant difference.  

[unchained]

Glad you are enjoying the upgrades, both simple but they do make things smoother and more responsive.

Bob

[Dave Milnes]

I doubt the stand will ever lift a pillion as the weight is too far rearwards, mine will just about lift me but I think somewhere in the bumph that was around when the bike was in production, it did say to stand and remove your weight from the saddle and then press the button. I don't think it was ever meant to lift a loaded bike.
One thing I have noticed on mine is that after 80,000 miles and a lot of stand use (never use side stand) the actual lift is hardly any, the wheels are barely off the ground any more. I think wear to the bottom of the feet, slight pivot wear etc has all added up to a shorter stand, and so an easier leverage effect, so much so that it almost flies over the top when unloaded, but still works hard if I don't lift my weight off the seat a bit. It's dead easy to do it manually too.

[Peter T]

It's nice to have it working anyway. There's a fresh controller arriving toward the end of the month, hopefully that will return it to original standard. 😉

[spannerman]

When new you had to lift your weight off the seat, and sometimes it struggled, so I only used it infrequently and worried if the 500 single would restart. 

[Dave Milnes]

If you look at the design and the leverage ratio, it isn't very efficient but hydraulics are powerful so it gets by OK considering the amount of oil it's working with.

[Peter T]

I'd wondered about increasing the leverage, the actuator looks to have enough headroom to cope with it but I'd need to check. Just going to run it for a while as is and wait for idle hands to lead me back to it. I'm currently rebuilding a chinese pit bike with my godson to raise funds for a project 'ped for when he turns 16.

[Dave Milnes]

There isn't a lot of clearance between the bobbin on the stand lever and the engine side casing. Not sure if the lever can be lengthened. Another thing is the length the stop on the shaft will extend to before the ram runs out of shove although a spacer can probably be slid along the shaft.