Swingarm stud sheared

[x9smoothie]

Hi all,

For my X9 500, I was replacing the rear tyre and in the process I encountered a snapped M10 studs holding the swing arm to the engine.
There are two studs screwed to the engine and the sheared one (sheared on it's own not from me trying to remove it) is the lower one.
I can't believe it sheared on it's own, as I didn't think there was much of a load on it.

I take it these studs are hardened and I broke a bit trying to drill. Before I go any further I want to ask what it best way to remove the piece that is stuck in the engine hole.
I was planning on trying to drill it out with a reverse drill bit.
The sheared stud is below the engine hole surface and thus there is no chance to grab any part above the surface with a vice.

The other problem is the only vespa dealer said they can't order the part for me as it is not in the catalog which he showed me on the computer. We even checked the BV500 and only the 15mm nut was there.
Odd! I'll deal with this problem later as getting it out is step 1.

Thanks all!  
 J

[roadster]

Realistically drilling is the only way. If you try any kind or welding the engine case is going to get burnt. You need to start small with a sharp punch in the centre. Use cobalt drill bits if its really too hard to drill with HSS ones. If you can get it to 8.5mm straight and true you may be able to clean it out with a tap. I don't know whether its a standard thread or fine pitch though. More likely you will only be able to safely drill enough to use a stud extractor ( one of those that has a sort of course left hand worm thread). If so make sure you get the surrounding engine casing as hot as possible using a blow torch ( carefully!). I afraid its a tricky job to do especially in situ and the best repair once you have a hole again really depends on how much sound casting remains. An oversize stud or a helicoil repair may be your only options.

[unchained]

Do not worry if you cannot get a stud to fit, use a bolt instead. The SL's did not use studs they relied on bolts.

The previous owner of my SL had to helicoil one of my holes and it has not been a problem for the last 5 years+.

Studs and bolts are notauriaously hard to drill out, as roadster has said, use cobalt drills and I would recomend using some drilling lubricant as well.

Bob

[Dave Milnes]

When fixed use coppaslip to avoid future problems.
I never overly tighten these nuts, just nip them up firmly, maybe 7-10lbft, never had one come loose or any sign of wear. In theory combined with the axle nut it forms a solid triangle mount with barely any stress on the studs. It's possible at some point it's had the axle spacers fitted in the wrong places forcing the arm out at an angle and bent the studs, then vibration and bending has formed a stress crack.
If you keep the stud method and end up oversize, you can open up the swing arm hole a bit, I think there is enough thickness in the boss to allow it.

[Mike H]

Suspect a P.O. has snapped it?

(Oh the joys of buying second hand)

[x9smoothie]

Hi all,

Thanks. I have my cobalt drill bit ordered and waiting for to arrive, and will focus on drilling it out

Drilling in the center is a serious challenge. I think I'm a bit off from center my previous start, and what made it difficult was how the engine doesn't give you much room to get the drill head in there without angling it.  

Hi Mike it was not the PO, as I had this bike 9 years now. I believe I had tighten this really good in my last tyre change, and the reason was because it was missing the nut last time as it had come off the stud by itself. I just bought a new one and i torqued it in good, thinking it was under torqued.
To Dave's point, yes the spacer were at one time long ago fitted incorrectly and may be the root cause to the present issue due to bent studs.

If I get this sucker out, I will try to go with bolts if permitted.  

Cheers all
 J

[Mike H]

Am I right this is the alloy plate type thing that is opposite side of the rear wheel to the drive belt casing?

Wondering how nut can unscrew itself. 


I am reminded tho when I got my blue X10 (second hand), like you when looking around the back end, something to do with brake probably, X10 has two bolts to hold the plate to engine, the bottom one was missing, top one was loose. 

It'd just had a new tyre put on, and I had assumed someone put them in but forgot to tighten them up.

[Dave Milnes]

Yes the trailing arm the silencer bolts to. Early models had bolts but on the X9 from 2004 they changed to studs and nuts but no lock washer. One of those jobs that if disturbed you can easily forget where you were up to and not nip them up properly.
The X10 reverted to bolts then or had yours sheared and someone drilled them out and used bolts?

[Mike H]

No signs of that, just as though not tightened up, and one unscrewed and fell out. Or they lost it so couldn't put it back. Threads were original so far as I could tell.

[Mike H]

PS: the bolts are OEM, got them from A J Sutton.

[x9smoothie]

This morning I got a hardened M10 hex bolt as a potential replacement from the fastener store. I know I shouldn't be buying something when the broken stud is still stuck, but I went to the store anyways to see if there any other nifty tools that may help get this stud out, and I suppose I just love looking around the store. I didn't see anything else that may help, but in the extractor section I see Alden Drill-Out bits where are very pricey and interesting.

Yup just waiting for stuff to arrive by mail now and polishing the good ol' lucky horseshoe
 

[solorider]

Do not worry if you cannot get a stud to fit, use a bolt instead. The SL's did not use studs they relied on bolts.

The previous owner of my SL had to helicoil one of my holes and it has not been a problem for the last 5 years+.

Studs and bolts are notauriaously hard to drill out, as roadster has said, use cobalt drills and I would recomend using some drilling lubricant as well.

Bob

My 500SL has studs for the swinging arm, and they are not available from Piaggio, mine didn’t snap, it pulled out ripping the thread, the stud is a M12 where it goes into the case and a m10 where the nut goes on, I had to drill my swinging arm out to accept a m12 bolt and a helicoil to sort the thread out, I know that for fact as I bought a helicoil set which went upto m10 and it was no good, I had to order another set for m12!!

[Mike H]

These are big bolts or studs, I'm wondering how they can break or pull out or strip 

[x9smoothie]

My god Solo! I can't believe it.

My M42 cobalt bits arrived, but there just isn't enough room to get the drill head in there to keep the bit straight. I decided to buy a drill check extension, but not sure if it is going to be true enough or able to hold the bit for such high duty torque. I shall wait again.

This is the chuck extension I got:
Neiko 20753A Keyless Chuck Conversion Tool | 1/4-Inch Shank

[x9smoothie]

This weekend I have been working intensively on trying to get the stud out.
With a propane torch cobalt left hand drill bits, and cobalt extractor bits I could not get the job done.
I even tried using a punch and hammer technique to spin it out by hammering the stud in a fashion to apply a force near the outer diameter in attempts to break the stud out counterclockwise.
Part of the frustration is the limited working room.
Finally I decided not to drill it out as my center point on the stud is not great / not center. I will button her up and just ride the way it is with more frequent inspection of the other stud.

Thanks all! Appreciate the help.


 

[solorider]

It seems that piaggio do list a bolt for the swinging arm, but my 2002 SL has studs which they don’t list, mine was a stepped stud and I had to fit a M12 helicoil as the M10 was too small!!