OK, now this- ASR and ABS light constantly on!

[chippyzip]

Hi

I finally sorted out my slow puncture, and as of yet, it's not caused a problem, but since "test riding" it for the first time today ( I was waiting for the bloody rain to stop! ) I've noticed that the ASR  and the ABS lights are constantly lit. Do I have to reset them somehow? I know you can disable the ASR if you want, but what is the point of that?

Graham 

[spannerman]

You do have to re-calibrate the system, how to do it is in the handbook, my memory is rubbish, but it has something to do with the starter switch and riding at a constant speed for a set time. I had a Beverly 350, good luck.
 

[roadster]

If both are on its more likely to be a problem with the speed sensors on front and back wheels. If you have only disturbed the back wheel then that is more likely to be the culprit. Make sure the pickup has the correct clearance to the sensor ring and look for any signs of damage to the wiring.

[chippyzip]

The rear wheel was taken off to have the puncture fixed, although I never had to reset the ASR/ABS last time the wheel was off, when a new tyre was fitted.. I took the chance to check the wiring for the ABS while the wheel was off, and it didn't seem to have a problem, however, I'll have a go at calibrating the system when the bloody rain stops, if ever... 

Graham

[Mike H]

What roadster said, constantly on = an ABS error notification, attempt at recalibrating won't work. There's a problem with the wheel sensor.

I think service manual says you got to be careful to get these right whenever removing and refitting a wheel.

HTH

[Mike H]

PS: normally you only need to do a recalibrate for two reasons, 1. battery was disconnected, 2. tyre wear alters the circumferences so they go out of match.

[chippyzip]

I tried to calibrate the ASR/ABS system with the hopeless instructions in the manual, but got nowhere as the lights are still constantly on! ! change the tyre and the bloody thing breaks! anybody know (in English, on how to recalabrate the system? are there any good youtube vids out there that can show you how on earth to do it? if not, It'll probably be better if I pull the fuse out!

Graham

[The Bern]

  It'll probably be better if I pull the fuse out!

Take care bud, you may be nulling your insurance by bypassing a safety device, not sure if it passed over to bikes, but certainly on cars, ABS fitted at time of manufacture must function for it it to pass the MoT test.

[chippyzip]

can you take a look at the ABS sensor without going through the faff of taking the wheel off? I don''t want to go through THAT again! 

Graham

[Mike H]

I tried to calibrate the ASR/ABS system with the hopeless instructions in the manual, but got nowhere as the lights are still constantly on!

It won't recalibrate because as you say, system is broken. Need to fix it first.


Here are posts where we looked at recalibration before:

http://x9ownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=23771.msg269780#msg269780

• Ride until ABS and ASR lights go out and stop flashing.*

• Turn the ASR system off by pressing the button «1» on the handlebar and check that
the ASR disabling warning light «2» is on.

• Allow the engine to idle for at least 3 seconds.

• Press simultaneously the right brake lever, the engine start-up button and the ASR
on/off button «1» for at least 2 seconds. The activation process will be confirmed by
the ASR warning light «2» turning on with slow flashing.

• Accelerate to a constant speed of 30 to 40 km/h and maintain it for at least 7 to 8
seconds.

• The end of the procedure will be indicated by the flashing ASR warning light «2».

• Once the procedure is complete it is necessary to turn off the vehicle panel (key off)
and wait 30 seconds before turning the panel on (key on).


* But none of this will work if still got ABS error.

HTH

[Mike H]

can you take a look at the ABS sensor without going through the faff of taking the wheel off? I don''t want to go through THAT again! 

Graham

Page 172 of that manual I posted a link to.

Translation:
Perform the operations in the reverse order of disassembly
respecting the prescribed pairs.
- Install the phonic wheel sensor with the relative
washer.
- Determine the dimension «K» by means of one
thickness gauge and verify its correct value:
K = (1.05 ÷ 1.85) mm


Aka feeler gauge, I presume.


-

[Mike H]

Looking at other topic, when getting the plate off did you use heat on it? If so might have bu55ered up the sensor.

[chippyzip]

No, I didn't use heat in the end to get that bracket off I used an impact hammer penetrating oil, and brute force!
Looks like it'll have to come back off to have a look at the sensor..

Graham

[Dave Milnes]

Is the sensor part of the caliper/handbrake assembly? There will be some sort of ring on the wheel or hub that the sensor detects. The slightest bend in this will cause this problem.

[roadster]

Easiest way to check is probably to measure the resistance of front and rear sensors and see if they match. You would need a reasonably good quality multimeter and I would expect the value to be somewhere above 10 ohms and less than 2000. As the workshop manual gives no details its better just to compare front and rear by measuring at the connector after disconnection of course. This is assuming you have ruled out a bent sensor ring or incorrect working clearance.

[Mike H]

Is the sensor part of the caliper/handbrake assembly? There will be some sort of ring on the wheel or hub that the sensor detects. The slightest bend in this will cause this problem.

Look at page 172 of the X10 500 manual I posted a link for -

The sensor is seperately removable (as shown in photo on that page), no need even to remove the plate.

The hub has a slotted disc mounted on it which is what the sensor reacts to. Both front and rear wheels are identical in this regard.

As per the manual, the gap between disc and sensor must be 1.00 - 1.85 mm

There's a drawing on that psge to show it.

HTH

[Mike H]

Easiest way to check is probably to measure the resistance of front and rear sensors and see if they match. You would need a reasonably good quality multimeter and I would expect the value to be somewhere above 10 ohms and less than 2000. As the workshop manual gives no details its better just to compare front and rear by measuring at the connector after disconnection of course. This is assuming you have ruled out a bent sensor ring or incorrect working clearance.

Which reminds me, how does error manifest?

Normal behaviour is both the amber dash lghts are flashing independently when the bike is first turned on and started, they go out once moving.

You are saying "contantly lit", is this after riding it, or upon first turning it on?

If only after riding, then suggests sensor is OK, as I would have thought it would show a error immediately if the sensor has fault. 'Least it does on cars...

?

[Mike H]

This is assuming you have ruled out a bent sensor ring or incorrect working clearance.

Bent disc is possible due to the attempts of levering the plate off? There's no strength to it of course.

[chippyzip]

A bent disc is the next possibility, as I've checked the ABS cable itself, checked fuses, checked the sensor, and inflated the tyre up to the recommended pressure. I've had a look online, and both the sensor and the disc are reasonable prices. I also got an appointment with the garage, but they say there isn't much that can go wrong, he suggested looking at the ABS sensor connector, and the disc. Like I mentioned, I've had a look at the sensor cable, but I couldn't find the connector, as the cable is partly hidden by the plastic body panel..

As for roadsters question- when the ignition is turned on the ASR light flashes and then stays on when riding, but the ABS light is constant throughout both in ignition and while riding, that's why recalabrating the ASR is a bit difficult, as the instructions mentions "  Ride until ABS and ASR lights go out and stop flashing.*- bit tricky when it stays on!

Graham

[chippyzip]

Ok,

Following wise suggestions as to what could be the cause of the ASR/ABS light constantly on, I took the exhaust and bracket off ( being careful not to knacker the ABS sensor) and took the wheel off for a closer inspection of the sensor disc.

I found a part of the disc bent, with a small scratch on the surface. I placed the disc on a flat surface, and boy was it not flat!

Looking back now, I can remember trying to force the bracket off using the claw of a hammer, and brute force to get the bloody thing off- and in the process, bent the disc. Luckily, the ABS sensor wasn't damaged by my half arsed effort to get the bracket off, and I've learnt a valuable lesson- if that bracket is stuck on, use an impact drive, and be careful of parts at the back of the bracket.

I've ordered parts from Easyparts NL, including the bloody screws that hold the sensor disc in place, as surprise surprise, they were stuck fast, and required a over-size star socket to get them out ( oh, and they had blue loctite on them as well...

Ah well, hopefully, when I get the parts, hopefully, it should solve the problem- and I no longer need the garage to repair it (hopefully!)



Graham 

[chippyzip]

more pics of the busted ABS wheel...

Graham

[Mike H]

Yeah that would do it. 

[roadster]

Call me a cheapskate put I would have tried to true the ring up with a bit of brute force. Perhaps using the jaws of a big vice with some suitable packing. It needs to be flat enough so that the aforementioned clearance is always maintained within tolerance as the wheel is rotated.

[chippyzip]

I did think of that, but the cost of the ring was cheap (13 euros ) that I thought, that's gotta be a better option than trying to straighten the old one out, putting it all back together (minus the exhaust, of course) and then finding out that it's just not straight enough, and still causes the error, and then taking the bloody thing apart again, and then finally ordering a ring!  ::

Graham 

[unchained]

I assume that Easyparts had one in stock, they post and deliver very quickly these days so it should arrive by the end of the week.

Bob