Slow puncture now on rear wheel

[chippyzip]

Hi
Shortly after fitting a new belt and rollers, I discovered a slow puncture on my rear wheel... I seem to remember from last time, you have to remove the exhaust etc, in which I've taken that off undone all the bolts needed, and got both the parking brake and rear brake disconnected and moved out of the way. All that's left seems to be the large swing arm bracket over the wheel. Am I right you just give this a strong tug, and it should be easy to take off, or is there something else I need to do, before the bracket is removed, as try as I can, I just can't get this large bracket off! does the circlip at the wheel need to be taken off?I've checked all round for any hidden bolts I may have missed, including that sneaky one just underneath the mudguard!

As usual, I've searched for a guide, but can't find one. I should know how this comes off, I did it about 8 months ago when new tyres needed to be fitted!   

Graham

[Mike H]

Have you taken the two bolts out of crankcase? These hold it on at the front.

[chippyzip]

You mean number 37, in this illustration? there are 2 nuts at the back..  https://www.easyparts.nl/showdrawing/19642/142639/713B/0-4019-1-m420-m28814-m15057-m19642-s19647-d142639/Rear-suspension---Shock-absorbers.html

Graham

[spannerman]

Those 2 bolts hold the bracket on, they need to come off.
I've just got back my Silverwing wheel and new tyre, it was pointed out to me the wheel was corroded because of the tyre reventative stuff in it. It has been losing a bit of pressure because of the tyre not sealing.
So the puncture stuff in the long term was causing a loss of pressure and damaging the wheel.
They had to apply a black sealant to the rim, hopefully to seal it.

[Mike H]

You mean number 37, in this illustration? there are 2 nuts at the back..  https://www.easyparts.nl/showdrawing/19642/142639/713B/0-4019-1-m420-m28814-m15057-m19642-s19647-d142639/Rear-suspension---Shock-absorbers.html

Graham

Sorry keep thinking in terms of the 350cc. But yes list says 37, nut for rear suspension bracket.

So they're nuts not bolts.

[Mike H]

Re puncture preventative "stuff", yes if is water based will corrode inside of rim. I have used Utraseal in inner tubes, but doesn't apply then of course.

[Dave Milnes]

I have used this kind of stuff since the first alternative to Ultraseal came out and have had no bother with corrosion in any rim apart from one where I stupidly 'thinned' a part bottle to extract more out of it. That did eat into the rim quite badly but I had added water directly into the tyre.
If you get corrosion I would suggest you are adding moisture by the method used to pump up the tyres. If you do it from either a garage forecourt with a small coin operated compressor, or by a foot pump used in a cold damp environment you will be filling the tyre with moisture. Use a proper compressor with moisture trap or do it on a warm dry day with a foot pump then you should be OK.
Usually when I remove tyres there is virtually none of the 'goop' on the rim, 90% is on the inside of the tread part of the tyre and usually fairly dry compared to when it was injected.

[Mr.Chips]

No problem with what is now 'Puncturesafe'; even the tyre-fitters don't mind it.

 

[chippyzip]

Sorry keep thinking in terms of the 350cc. But yes list says 37, nut for rear suspension bracket.

So they're nuts not bolts.

Yep, the two bolts are removed, I just can't get the bloody bracket off! Maybe I'm missing something else that needs to come off!

Graham

Graham

[Mike H]

Found a service manual, starts on page 168.

https://www.vespaforum.com/manuals/Piaggio%20X10/X10%20500/PIAGGIO_X10_500_Workshop_Manual.pdf

?

[chippyzip]

THanks for that Mike! looking at the guide, it seems i've missed removing the screw (page 170) second pic down, the right screw inside that hole in the mudguard. All the other bolts/screws/nuts I've seen to have removed, so maybe that could be the reason as to why the bloody bracket won't come off! I'm back on earlies tomorrow (damm, gotta go to Lincoln police, and fix some camera's and mics there..      ) so, I'll have have another look when I get home a bit later.

Graham 

[Mike H]

Keep us informed!

[chippyzip]

OK, I'm back home, and I'm back trying to remove the rear bracket. I've finally unscrewed the last nut I can see ( that one behind the rear mudflap, and having a look around the bracket, I can't see any more nuts/screws/bolts that need taking off- but try as I can, the bracket will NOT come off! I just can't work it out, I mean, I followed everything by the book, and still, the bloody bracket refuses to come off...
This means I can't remove the rear wheel, and get the tyre fixed... For Christs sake, why oh why do the bloody Italians have to make EVERYTHING so bloody difficult!! I should have learn't my lesson over 30 years ago, as a young lad, trying to sort out my V100 in the 80's!

Surely, I have removed EVERYTHING that's needed brakes, exhaust, bolts, screws, nuts etc, but It won't come off! the only thing I haven't removed, and I'm sure this never happened last time, is to remove the circlip and try to remove the bearing from the bracket...

Oh, and don't get me started, on the shitty monkey metal screws, that are only good for using once....

Graham

[Dave Milnes]

When my X9 500 was new and I used the dealer for servicing, at 8000 miles when the belt was due, they couldn't get the arm off either. They pulled and wedged and crowed at it and gave up. I made a puller from a piece of 1/4" thick 2" angle iron and a bit nut and bolt from a car hub puller, and after giving it some welly it shifted on the shaft with a big 'crack'! When i removed it the shaft was all tarnished and bone dry. I couldn't even push the arm back on, so I emery clothed the shaft and polished it up, and always apply a smear of grease on fitting the arm and ever since it just pulls off by hand as it should do.
Maybe this is your problem too?

[chippyzip]

It could well be, as the tyre deflated as I was near a petrol station, and I had to push the bloody thing to the tyre inflator, so put in enough air in the tyre to get me back home, which was only a mile away. I guess I could have put some extra force on the bracket as the tyre was flat. I'll scour ebay for a hub puller, and try that trick! and I'll remember to apply loads of copper grease when I put it back!

Cheers for the tip!


Graham 

[Mike H]

Since you going to take it apart, how about spraying some releasing fluid e.g. Plus Gas, down bewteen it and the wheel hub?

I presume you've identified the 'tight bit' is at the wheel spindle?

[Dave Milnes]

What I used.

[The Bern]

What I used.

Can I just say .... Like ... as there's not a button, I like it when a person comes up with the answer to an engineering conundrum, even more so when they make thier own tool to resolve the problem ... top marks bud

[chippyzip]

I have to agree, what a cracking idea! ( no pun intended!) I might see if I can make a similar tool to free the bracket, thanks!

Graham 

[russtygid]

Excellent tool. However requires a high degree of skill to use as it is stronger than the alloy arm. Please apply pressure very slowly and carefully with plenty of penitrating oil. Too much initial pressure could easily crack the alloy. Sometimes a moderate pressure left on overnight will work on a difficult case. Try a little hot air on the alloy. Best of luck but do be careful.

[chippyzip]

I like the hot air method, as I've got an industrial hot air gun, but wont it damage the bearing inside the bracket?

Graham 

[Mike H]

The bearing has plastic seals so could those.

I presume the plate rotates a bit on the spindle? Just to prove it's free in every other regard.


Have you tried penetrating fluid, and leave overnight?

[russtygid]

Only apply heat to the alloy. If this solution is effeftive the bearing will not get hot only warm. If the plastic starts to melt then the whole assembly is too hot. Often the application of heat is benifical even after the thing has cooled down. The essential thing is to proceed carefully and gently as damage to the alloy arm will be expensive.

[chippyzip]

Yep, just seen the cost of the bracket on Fowlers £281 inc delivery! £14,69 for the bearing, and 50p for the circlip!
Anyhow, managed to get the thing off in the end, using penetrating oil, a lever, and a mallet, with brute force, and swearing! I'm going to clean the main shaft with a bit of wet and dry, and when the tyre is fixed, slap some copper ease on the shaft, so hopefully, I won't have trouble again..   

Thanks for your help and advice folks, i'm going to look in about making some sort of bracket - just in case!

Graham 

[Mike H]

Excellent, congratulations.