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Author Topic: Steering head bearing on Xevo 400 ie  (Read 8522 times)
parnell
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« on: May 09, 2016, 19:27:48 »

Dear Dave & other experts ,

I've done quite some searching on the forum (and even in the manual) and can't find the size of the Xevo 400's bearings. What I did however find was not to order the Korean cheap rubbish that comes with the model but instead choose a high quality (German ?) version.

Any chance of a direct link or some help to find such items ?

thanks.
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Trickygee
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« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2016, 06:55:56 »

Have a look at easyparts.nl in the parts section all the exploded views not sure if the head bearing sizes are there but I do remember finding the sizes for something and bought it else where worth a try have a look on eBay I've just bought full kit a set complete with cups etc original piaggio in the blue box £15
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« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2016, 07:12:04 »

All X9's use the same sized bearings, so it's possible Piaggio use the same right across the model range, it would minimise production costs when manufacturing headstock frame parts. The only part that seemed to differ was between ball and roller upper bearings, but you rarely need to change these, just the lower one.

If you order from Simply Bearings they arrive next day if ordered before mid afternoon so if you remove the old one, measure it or if you can read off the size, you will be able to replace it the following afternoon.
The size for the X9 range is on the web pages.
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2018 Honda Forza NSS300
Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019.
parnell
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« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2016, 11:43:07 »

Thanks guys I had a look online using your advice and it seems that they are identical - as they use the same stock picture >

on amazon it comes up with two different manufacturer's numbers for the the XEvo 400: 4012670-242 compared to one for say an X9 500 : 4012670-238

http://www.amazon.de/Lenkkopflager-f%C3%BCr-PIAGGIO-Evolution-Street/dp/B00JHH4D3M

But I REALLY would prefer to get a much higher spec version if possible. Unfortunately as I live in Switzerland I have to pick up the item in Germany to avoid crazy customs charges so it's not possible to get it ordered and picked up within 24 (or even 48) hrs.

EDIT : Found this : https://www.amazon.co.uk/Classic-Jap-HEAD-BEARING-KIT/dp/B00NRIDCOI?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0

which lists measurements but still wouldn't know whether to trust that or how to convert that into something I could order from simplybearings.

Still thanks guys.
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« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2016, 13:31:15 »

6009215 is the Piaggio part number for a full set from Fowlers in Bristol. Easyparts have the same set for 40 Euros.
I would avoid Amazon as half the sellers don't know their product and will blindly sell you a part that doesn't fit.
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2018 Honda Forza NSS300
Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019.
parnell
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« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2016, 20:29:40 »

Right... messing around on the easy parts website amongst others it seems the bottom bearing is 53mm in diameter and I guess those are 1/4 inch ball bearings - here's a Buzzetti version :

https://www.easyparts-rollerteile.de/Lower-Ball-Race-Steering-Head-BUZZETTI-Piaggio-Scooters_(Front%20Fork%20Parts)-p135437.html

Upper ones are 40mm diameter and 1/8 ball bearings :

https://www.easyparts-rollerteile.de/Upper-Ball-Race-Steering-Head-BUZZETTI-Piaggio-Scooters_(Front%20Fork%20Parts)-p135435.html

What would you recommend Dave (and here I'd really appreciate some links) ?

Also do you think I need any special tools such as the stem wrench : https://www.easyparts-rollerteile.de/Steering-Stem-Wrench-(adjustable)-BUZZETTI-%C3%9825-%3E70mm-Universal_(Fork%20Tools)-p102939.html

or a bearing cup removal tool : https://www.easyparts-rollerteile.de/Tool-to-Remove-Bearing-Cup-BUZZETTI-35-55mm_(Fork%20Tools)-p102936.html

or would you say I would be better off trying to fashion a tool myself and/or get a good rubber headed mallet ?

thanks again and especially for the following which seems to describe the entire procedure very well : http://www.x9ownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=20343.new#new


Dave, could you please provide me with the dimensions of the drifting tool please so I can build it ?


« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 21:02:53 by parnell » Logged

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parnell
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« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2016, 13:08:07 »

Well as time is a runnning I went ahead and ordered the lower bearing - original part number 650075 - and will take measurements from it and will try to order the highest spec version I can find thereafer.
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« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2016, 16:16:10 »

You can just use a length of round bar, it doesn't have to be a flat bar, I just used that as I didn't have any round bar to hand and if you just square off the end of a flat bar you can't get enough angle on it to feel the edge of the race so the sides need hollowing so it can be tilted.
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2018 Honda Forza NSS300
Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019.
parnell
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« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2016, 12:30:21 »

Hi all , well I took delivery of the parts today - the bottom bearing is indeed 53mm external diameter and 1/4 inch ball bearings. The lower race (or I think it is that) seems to be 64mm outer diameter and 38mm inner diameter. Again if anyone could help me order better quality bearings from that I'd be most grateful.
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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2016, 06:55:48 »

Nobody as far as I know has found titanium bearings for the headstock as of yet changing the bearings on a piaggio seems to be a perk of owning one as I've changed them on an x9, xevo, MP3, so pretty much across the range of piaggio maxi scooters it's a common trait to get the notch on heavier piaggios even the MP3 that doesn't take the weight of the bike through the headstock still ended up with wanting to go in a straight line notch
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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2016, 07:55:31 »

Properly adjusted and greased head bearings will last for 50,000 miles. The problems with original bearings ( and this applies to the likes of Honda and other respected manufacturers as much as Piaggio ) is that they are/or were greased with a jelly like grease which is very sticky to aid production line assembly but likely to dry out after 12 months, and they are often over tightened because adjusting them with the ideal tiny amount of free play is much more difficult and time consuming on first assembly. From the purist viewpoint a crowded ball bearing such as typically found on bicycles should work best because the load is spread across more contact points and the small amount of steering rotation in normal use causes relatively greater displacement for small rolling elements so that they don't return to the identical spot on the races every time. But of course its more expedient to use an off the shelf bearing for mass production.
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parnell
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« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2016, 17:32:12 »

Well all done with the bike thk God... roadster has a good point the grease was pretty dry but the lower bearing outer race was just a little oxidised ... you could see where some rust formation was beginning but it was definitely salveageable. When putting everything back together we noticed the left (rear) brake caliper was very soft so we'll probably do a brake bleed together with the belt change before winter. First test of the bike is that the driving on rails has completely vanished so I'm quite happy with the result. It's almost certainly a two man job tho.
Thanks again for all the help.
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« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2016, 20:48:44 »

A ball bearing not a roller? The X9 has tapered roller at the bottom and 500's at the top although others have ball top ones.
I would have thought a taper roller has advantage in that it self centres the shaft due to the end force on the inner race even if the pre-load is way too loose.
The groove worn by a roller in the outer race may create more of a notch feeling than a dimple created by a ball so possibly a ball race doesn't fix the problem, but increases the time before you notice the wear.
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2018 Honda Forza NSS300
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« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2016, 08:37:58 »

Engineering students are taught that taper rollers may be pre-loaded because the line contact is tolerant of higher load and this is common practice for wheel bearings. But unfortunately for a bearing that only rotates a few degrees and spends almost all the time in one position a preloaded taper roller will always roll back to exactly the same spot and will develop a notch at that point on the races. Slight slackness from new will ensure that the rolling elements ( ball or roller) will "rattle around" just enough to spread out the wear especially if the grease retains a free flowing consistency.
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« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2016, 08:55:09 »

Do you have a pic of the old lower bearing, might be useful for sourcing better or cheaper options?
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2018 Honda Forza NSS300
Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019.
parnell
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« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2016, 10:55:51 »

Yup here goes - you can see the caked dried out grease on the roller bearing :


https://1drv.ms/i/s!AnLX8LDxmIcOhOkfb3oJY5kklG9e4A
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