Service.....

[Apex]

[jimc]

Sounds a high cost for the pads especially if they added VAT on top - but the overall cost for the 4000 service doesn't sound too outrageous.  A small price to pay for continued warranty!

[Dave Milnes]

Yep, servicing by dealer is a rip off but if you are under warranty what option do you have?
The best way of avoiding being stung is to do all the non-service items yourself, such as pads, tyres, even belts etc leaving only the engine and fluids to be charged labour for. The wear and tear parts are on the service schedule as check and change if necesary, so even if a belt is on the list, if you tell the dealer it has just been done and not to bother he should comply and that way you aren't paying labour charges over and above what is the fixed service cost price.
What some dealers do is add further labour for each additional part on top of the standard charge for the mileage, plus the parts price, and then add VAT on top of the total. One reason you should never have things like tyres done with a service, or for that matter at a dealers at all.

[jimc]

To be fair, when I was not as au fait with the X9 as I am now, my dealer(s) several times found items necessary to be done only because they *were* changing belts, tyres etc.

You can always supply the pads yourself for the dealer to fit - this might be essential on the 250 Evo where the retaining pins can so easily seize up!

The potential cost to me of all the items I've had replaced under warranty far outweighs the amount I've paid in service charges - and that includes only one digidash!

[Apex]

2 months and the scoots out of warantee, did it for peace of mind.

Theres a fair ammount of stuff needing doing on the scooter over the next few months acording to the service manual list from piaggio not least the coolent and brake fluid as checking the past service history of the bike (got the recipts from the first owner) they have never been changed, guess thats the price you pay for owning anything. Want it servicing, you have to pay for it.

Might be taking a trip to JT's some time next year once i pass my test and get my GPS unit fitted

[Big Ears]

[John@Thompsons]

[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]Yep, servicing by dealer is a rip off but if you are under warranty what option do you have?
[/quote]

Would Dave Milnes care to elaborate on this subject, because I personally object to this total drivel being repeatedly posted on this site.

It's nothing short of outrageous slander in fact...  

To service a machine like this, one requires training, specialist knowledge, and a host of tools and equipment that cost a considerable sum of money.

Even with all the above, it requires Premises, Insurance and Time.

Poor Quality service is a rip off, as is blatant overcharging, but dealer servicing for most people is a neccessity, and most certainly not a rip off.

I would be interested in how Mr Milnes can possibly defend this sort of irresponsible behaviour, or will he skulk off into the bushes like he normally does after some half arsed apology, and wait until another time?

[dididowell]

Unfortunately not all Piaggio dealers are  like you and Cheeky. There are dealers out there who I wouldn't  allow anywhere near my bike,on the other hand, I would feel quite comfortable to have someone like you or Cheeky work on my bike. It seems the quality of dealers varies enormously. We hear about the good ones, yourself and Cheeky included, and we also hear about the bad ones too, which is just how it should be. I can't believe you are so sensitive JT, everyone is very aware that the service you provide can't be faulted. Its the others that don't give good service that give Piaggio dealers a bad name.  

[John@Thompsons]

The trouble is, I'm sure there are many dealers out there who offer perfectly acceptable levels of service, and higher.

The bad ones are actually a minority as always, and unless somebody has undertaken a proper survey on a Nationwide scale, it is not right to hurl these glib sort of comments around.

It's like saying Black guys are muggers.

Sure, some are, but most are normal people like you and I.

I'm astonished anybody listens to this cretin any more.  

[jimc]

I would agree that dealer servicing is pretty much essential for most people, whether in or out of warranty.  However, as long as the bike is otherwise working OK, I reckon a competent[1] person can do all standard service items - but I'd still recommend having it dealers serviced whilst in warranty!  For my out-of-warranty bikes I'd far rather do the standard bits myself as then I get a good chance of being aware of the condition of the bike as a whole, and gain the right knowledge and tools to get myself out of trouble when on the road.

[1] In my book a competent person is one who knows the limits of their knowledge or skill...

[Derek]

The problem with Dave's post is that it is all encompassing, branding every dealer as a charlatan, rogue, rip-off merchant whatever you want to call it.
Like X9 problems it's only when they go wrong that you hear about them, dealers are the same, very few post about the good service they've received as they consider it the norm, as it should be. We all know that John and Cheeky give excellent service but anybody browsing the forum may not know that so perhaps people could qualify their statements when complaining about dealers as I personally don't want to se another war going on on here.

Derek

[Mr.Chips]

servicing by dealer is a rip off

I refute this statement utterly.
If one is in the position to service one's own vehicles one is often able to do the job more cheaply in terms of parts.
Labour, however, is another matter altogether;n hour of my time is as costly as anyone else's.

I do not and will not consider the charges I pay for the care of my X9 in any way to be unreasonable, even taking into account the cost of living in the South.
On the contrary, the service I receive is over and above what I could reasonably expect.

Yes, I live within easy reach of a first-class Piaggio business and am fortunate so to do.
Doubtless other people in other parts of the country benefit from similar first-class service in other fields which I do not. However, I will not keep bleating on about it; it's life.

In conclusion, I consider it totally out of order to precipitate a situation which may be detrimental to this club.

   

[dididowell]

I think we are going down a route which we have already travelled and don't wish to re-visit again.
I believe it may be best to leave this one to perish on the vine. As I don't think there can be any winners with this one.  

[Derek]

I'm closing this thread for the sake of harmony. If Dave wants to respond he can open it.

[jimc]

A possibly heated topic indeed - but that is no reason for closure.  I've re-opened it, and trust all who post hereafter will do so with some thinking time before posting.

[Ashley Elford]

I am totally ignorant of mechanics. I get my tyres and brake pads changed locally, but the rest of my bike's maintenance is done by my dealer. It is expensive, but then still a fraction of the machine's total cost. I'm spending money on peace of mind.

[ShaunA]

[Dave Milnes]

[jimc]

[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]It's not untypical to find a service price list or 'menu' for individual replacement parts to include all labour charges, but if you ask for two jobs to be done that involve removing the rear wheel for example, generally no discount is given on one job because half the labour time has been eliminated because the wheel was already removed for the other task. The two are added together in total then the VAT is added.[/quote]

Dave, if you know of any Piaggio dealer who has provably done this, then name and shame.  

A lot of what you say I agree with, but then I don't like owning any machine that I can't fettle myself - and I'd love to get an X9 equivalent that didn't have any ECUs etc...  Electronics I don't mind, but being shut out of control of my machine I hate.

With regards to the above quote - recently I had my front tyre changed at JT's workshop.  It was a reasonable price, and they had the elusive MGS in stock.  In the process the front pads were declared to be iffy - well I knew they were, and had spares on me, but thought why not let them get on with it.  With that, the rear pads were also seen to be iffy - yes, I knew they were due, but... so get on with it then.

What was I charged?  The proper price as advertised for the tyre + Ultraseal, and a few, very few, quid extra for the supply and fitting of the rear pads.  That might be because I showed how to replace them without removing the exhaust and wheel (which had been done the week before and *that* mechanic hadn't even glanced at the pads.  ).  The front pads (I provided replacements) changed without charge - well it doesn't take much more than three minutes, does it, when tools are at hand?


So I left feeling I had been well done by, the mechs knew I wasn't complaining, rather the opposite, and on a quietish day JT's made a leetle bit of money out of me, fairy 'nuff.  Not possibly as much as they could have done if the workshop had been very busy, and quite honestly not enough (doing sums in my head) to justify having a service place open at all, if that was the normal level of business. (It wasn't, don't worry John!)


So when I go to JT's I never ask for a discount (oh, ok, on scrap stuff, got me there! ...) but I am invariably offered a 'price' which seems very fair to me.  Mark you, I watch the clock, but I expect to pay at least GBP45 per hour in these circumstances.  That's London I guess - and for some trades is actually very cheap.


So we seem to have JT's, Cheeky's place and Comptons nominated for cluefulness - any more?

[Big Ears]

I've said it before, I have no complaints of Scootercafe in Maidenhead. Mike Atkinson and Nick, his techy, have served me very well - especially where my (now lost) 500 was concerned. The premises may not be a grand as others, but that is reflected in the labour rate. The personal, verbal abuse is free!!!  

[Dave Milnes]

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence to indicate there are plenty of poor servicing experiences around, although this has to be weighed as has been said about criticism of the X9 on here, in that you hear about the bad more than the good examples.
I was a lot more comfortable with the service rates the dealer I bought the 250SL from charged (Sam Taylors), small outfit no frills, but I much prefer my own hourly rate!

[PaulK]

Hmm. I dont like people calling people names on here.  The idea is that we can voice our opinions  - OPINIONS - here without fear or favour.

If you choose to take one person's OPINION to heart, that is your choice. You can also choose to ignore it.

Also please be aware that sometimes it is not possible to put down everything so completely that there is no confusion.  It takes time and significant communication skill, both of these are not neccessarily available to everybody all of the time thereby leading to an incomplete and variable reader understanding of the content..

If you read through these forums even occasionally, you may find that Dave Milne is quite knowledgable about the technical issues but maybe he didn't feel it neccessary to qualify his statement further. Maybe the reader who called him a cretin misunderstood the BACKGROUND and simply jumped to the prima facie conclusion - Dave is a cretin.  That being said, as an X9 guru that Dave is, doesn't neccessarily make it stand that his opinions for things outside technical issues are what yours should be also.  Again, you can take it or leave it. Your choice.

It's like the time a few people got stuck into poor ol' Solo for asking "stupid" questions.  How miserable that was, he asked because he wanted to know.  Some of you are experts in whatever your fields or professions are but to call someone lese a cretin, or stupid, or a moron because they don't understand the tacit inflections of your field of expertise doesn't mean they are, just because they don't have the level of knowledge or UNDERSTANDING that you do.

But most importantly this is a forum where we are free to discuss issues without fear or favour. If you come here to pick fault with others, please, go somewhere else.  This is an OPEN forum, that is, we are all entitled to say pretty much as we please.

Do I need to elucidate on this matter further? Chill.


Best regards to all,

Ride long (especially in Oz) and prosper (bit hard in Oz).

PaulK.

[lyonx9]

[Edg]

[Derek]