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Author Topic: Read this if you own a piaggio X10  (Read 33370 times)
frankiej1949
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« on: July 22, 2013, 22:42:19 »

A post from maxi muppets

I have one of the first x10s registered in the country.

It has been absolutely flawless BUT

there is a serious design issue

The fuse carrier is located at the back of the bike under the little flap. It is easy to get to if you pop the seat and then unscrew the 2 screws.

The flaw is that the underside of the fuse carrier is open to ALL the dirt and rain and everything else that can get through the gap.

My X10 has been off the road for 8 weeks whilst a complete new wiring harness has been sent from Italy.

ALL the contact have corroded

If you have noticed poor starting, cutting out, inconsistent fuelling, random lighting or anything else it means your wiring loom is starting to corrode!

Take it to your dealer and ask them to lithium grease the contacts and make a flap or housing to protect the fuse board.

Since mine was diagnosed my dealer has fixed 3 other x10s wi the SAME problem

Good luck and great riding
Fanlandcheese
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« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2013, 00:28:50 »

It was the same on the Fuoco. They ever learn, even though non directly exposed fuse boxes like the Nexus and X9, also can give corrosion problems if not protected better than how they leave the factory.
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« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2013, 06:32:39 »

Topic pinned.
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Colin
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« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2013, 21:12:45 »

Quote
underside of the fuse carrier is open to ALL the dirt and rain and everything else that can get through the gap.

Mite be a good idea to come up with a nice water proof dirt proof cover to protect it from the elements? so it dont happen again.
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Kirky007
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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2013, 19:03:51 »

I've taken your advice and pulled the fuse carrier out. My one has little if any extra loom to play with but I managed to get it out far enough to give the whole underside a good spray with silicon grease. Afterwards I put the complete carrier inside one of those little food bags with the press seal. Only have 45 miles on the clock after about 2 months but my excuse is the weather in Scotland hasn't beed the best recently. Oh, and there are other bikes I'd rather drop than this one on the way to work.
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Globs
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2014, 22:51:30 »

Hi chaps. This is what I did to fix this (at a mileage of 000003 miles):

If you remove the relays, unclip the fusebox, push it up a bit and tilt it toward the back of the bike you can slide it out the bottom. That's WHY there is such a big hole below it!
Take a photo first so it goes back in the same way.
Black duct tape makes a neat job of waterproofing the base, then slide it back in and from the base you can add more duct take to the outside of the container itself.


picture hosting

When I clipped it back in I removed all the fuses (value by value so as not to mix them up!) so I could add a blob of ACF-50 to each connector for every contact of every fuse and relay, as a precaution should it get wet. Oh and I missed out the screw above the fusebox - because I have the rack on - the standard toolkit screwdriver cannot get to that screw so in the field it would be impossible to change a fuse.
If you can work out how to remove a fairing panel or the number plate section it would be _much_ easier - but despite studying the tech. manual I didn't manage it.

Future:
From underneath you can see the end of the two bolts that start just below the battery and bolt the tub+battery box assembly to the frame. I'm trying to work out the shape for a piece of polycarbonate to fit on the end of those with a couple of nuts to act as a proper deflector.

It's a little sad we have to finish the design work on the X10, worse still to realise that the battery area and luggage compartment is one moulding. I.e. not easily removable and the kicker - Piaggio could have designed it to make the fuses accessible from inside the luggage compartment - with the very same loom!! That would have made changing fuses in the rain so much easier!

If anyone manages to get a fairing panel off I'd be very interested to see/read/hear how they did it - I know it must be possible and without being able to remove the tub (the opposite to the Vespa!) we're going to need to know how... still at least they don't fall off like the BMWs
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jwoolf
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« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2014, 21:32:36 »

I wish I'd seen that post BEFORE I did mine from the top last week 

But at least it's done, and this is the view from the rear tyre - I dread to think of the mess this would become without ACF50 and a shield 



I may try to improve it further but I'm wary of turning it into a moisture trap.
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Globs
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« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2014, 12:01:49 »

Looks a neat job. Good photo too - difficult to get in that space!

Just out of shot on the left of your picture is the end of an M6 bolt from the base of the battery box.
When I get the right shape I'll cut out a bit of polycarbonate (cheap on ebay in A3-A4 lumps) and bolt a shield onto those so the spray never even gets near...
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 12:20:01 by Globs » Logged
Globs
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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2014, 10:46:55 »

Seat hump bolts: grease or rust.

Also worth getting a No. 15 torx driver and undoing the seat hump: the steel bolts that hold it on go rusty as damp from the rain gets under that hump.
Use some copper-ease or similar grease to coat the threads and then put them back in, otherwise you may end up with a seat hump you can't adjust at all after a while....
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Dom63
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« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2014, 16:01:51 »

Hmmm. This morning the bike failed to fire first time, for the first time, then cut out briefly and randomly four or five times on a 10-mile ride. Better print this thread out for the dealer's techies...
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Mike H
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« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2014, 15:25:21 »

Had to have three separate goes at lying on my back on the ground with a torch (!) to even find this hole. 

Hitherto I had already opened the battery compartment and fusebox and sprayed everything in sight with WD40 (other brands are available .. )

Then later I at last found the underside opening, and as I also have the top box mounting I couldn't be asked trying to extract the fusebox, so instead I stuffed a couple of polythene freezer bags into the spaces from below.

I have also omitted the fusebox lid screw ~ had to use a bit from a torx bit set and turned with a 4BA spanner to get it out.
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Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.
Mike H
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« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2014, 17:35:29 »

One of today's jobs, added a plastic shield, cut from an ice cream tub lid, to the bottom of the fuse box to stop spray off the rear tyre getting in. Photo later, possiblee if you're very good ..

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Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.
Mike H
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« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2014, 19:14:12 »

And, here it is ~ well two ~ 'shield' is attached to bottom of moulding with a cable-tie, which is threaded through two holes the 'shield'.







This could probably be improved...


I've found one of the relays is on the end of a new bunch of wires and lies in the top of the fusebox, so obviously there was a problem with its socket contacts getting corroded!

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Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.
Mike H
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« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2014, 18:08:28 »

OK new super improved version Mk 2...

Made from a 2 kg ice cream tub lid, of course.  

Walls, this time...


Fabrication drawing first:








Install-ified ~ note fixed to lower fusebox moulding by a single short self tap screw; hold the gizmo in position then drill the hole through the whole lot, BUT MAKE SURE YOU'RE LOW ENOUGH NOT TO DRILL THROUGH THE FUSE BOARD! Note flap in drawing, pulls the corner together and also fixed by same screw going through both layers of plastic. If you see what I mean. Anyway the contraption cover fusebox on all 3 sides.






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Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.
Mike H
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« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2014, 18:14:41 »

The grommet is something I found in my spares, not marvellous but better than nowt. Has to be split to go around the cable loom, ditto the ice cream lid shield needs a split from inner edge to hole.

PS: this could conceivably be made of metal, say thin aluminium plate, but may be a problem getting it to fit if it doesn't bend easily.
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Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.
markwilliams
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« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2014, 18:57:23 »

Collected my new X10 350 today.

I noticed it is fitted with a hugger which looks as though it will stop this muck getting thrown up in the area of the fuses.

Is this a new addition or do all X10s have one?

Mark.
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spannerman
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« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2014, 20:29:16 »

You should fine with the 350 X10, my Beverly 350 also has the big hugger fitted, the 500cc is a different engine, so the frame has probably been modified for the old 500cc unit to fit in the X10 frame.
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Mike H
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« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2014, 23:00:41 »

Collected my new X10 350 today.

I noticed it is fitted with a hugger which looks as though it will stop this muck getting thrown up in the area of the fuses.

Is this a new addition or do all X10s have one?

Mark.

Mine has the hugger, and I think they always did, HOWEVER underside of rear bodywork is still caked in dirt that been thrown up in spray, and signs of same in the bottom of the fusebox, like I said earlier one of the relays has been removed and reconnected via a bunch of wires that go down the side of the fuseboard and splice into the main loom somewhere, such that it lies on its side on top of the fuses, so obviously the contacts for it became unreliable if not damaged due to corrosion. So no, still need this mod.

As an afterthought, I wonder whether the hugger can be extended at the back? That might help too.

PS: don't forget also the number plate lamp fix. Similar problem.  
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Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.
Mike H
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« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2014, 23:03:27 »

So, today I added a modified mudflap to my hugger as like an extender...






I trimmed it to make the guard 3 inches longer... the 'hugger' guard is about 8 inches (200mm) wide, so I needed a mudflap at least as wide as that, all I could get was a large size with an 'L' on it...





Turned out slightly too wide so fouling on the springs, so I made 'C' cut-outs to clear ... mudflap is easily cut with scissors.




HTH
« Last Edit: December 27, 2014, 17:50:35 by Mike H » Logged

Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.
Mike H
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« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2014, 17:39:12 »

If anyone manages to get a fairing panel off I'd be very interested to see/read/hear how they did it - I know it must be possible and without being able to remove the tub (the opposite to the Vespa!) we're going to need to know how... still at least they don't fall off like the BMWs

See my Bodywork topic.
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Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.
APH1967
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« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2016, 16:15:09 »

Can I liberally apply acf50 grease to the block ?
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Mike H
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« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2016, 00:29:46 »

Yes! You can! 


Note that in the fusebox the relay at one end on its own is for the radiator cooling fan, and the supply to the contact side is permanently live, aka battery positive, this will aggravate corrosion of the contacts so I would say it is rather important to spray these contacts. Ditto a couple of fuses.

The other two relays are for headlamp and fuel injector circuit. But don't know which is which.


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Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.
APH1967
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« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2016, 07:34:21 »

I have ordered the spray and grease tub.
 
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APH1967
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« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2016, 21:35:52 »

One piece of plastic cut from a 5L oil container bolted to inside of rear end covers it all up just great.
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Mike H
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« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2016, 23:52:18 »

 

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Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.
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