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Author Topic: Yellow X9 rebuilt complet  (Read 770 times)
Solo
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« on: November 02, 2018, 00:17:13 »

Hello

Tonight me and a mate finished rebuilding the Yellow X9 250 engine has been rebuilt up from the crank bench tested runs, its back in the bike and most panels are back on.

In May this year i posted on her to say the cam chain snapped, and removed engine, well its all done.

now time to press the started, the starter solenoid clicks but the bike is getting power apart from Fuel pump and starter motor are not doing nothing when pressing starter button.

Checked All fuses and front relay engine kill and back relay ignition kill, all in good order, earth on frame good and earth on starter good. swapped starter solenoid over but still clicks.

Its cold in my garage no heating so we gave up and made room ready for my X9 500.

Any one any ideas as i given up now ? the Yellow 250 Tank was going to be still my courier bike, and the X9 500 Evo my day off bike for dales adventures.

Thanks
From
Alexander solonyna


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« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2018, 09:46:51 »

If there is no power to the Starter then the solenoid is faulty. The power to the fuel pump is controlled by the ECU taking readings from the throttle sensor and I would assume that the engine needs to be turning also.

Bop
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« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2018, 10:37:33 »

Do you mean the solenoid clicks just the once when you pres the button, or it chatters as long as you hold the button in?
If it clicks once then the solenoid is actuating so kill switches etc are OK but there is no power being switched between battery and starter motor. Check the battery has actually got any charge. Charging a dead battery for a week still wont turn over an engine if the battery is physically dud ie a dead cell. Try bridging the screw terminals on top of the solenoid, and if it still doesn't turn over then either the battery is dead or the starter motor is dud or the engine itself is seized in some way. Have you fitted the lead to the starter motor correctly and not left the insulated washer under the nut?
If the solenoid chatters then the battery is flat despite charging, it has a mechanical fault and isn't taking any charge or keeping it for long.
Check out the engine by leaving the ignition off, even disconnect all the bikes electrics and using jump leads from your car clip the earth to the engine and put the live to either the starter motor terminal or the terminal on the solenoid that is connected to the motor and see if it spins over. If not then the engine isn't free to turn or the starter motor is dud.
If it spins over move the earth to the bikes frame and try again. If is turns over the earthing is OK, if it's now dead then the earth to the engine isn't a good one or missing.
Did you set the valve clearances properly when assembling the engine, and get the cam timing correct?
Did you use the correct base gasket under the barrel and correct thickness head gasket?
Does the engine turn over freely with the nut on the variator?
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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2018, 00:52:52 »

I have rebuilt this engine twice first time round new crank due to lack of oil, toke all day fitting parts and was spot on ran for about a year before the Cam chain decided to streechted come off teeth and caused an engine rebuild, but its too cold to work in the garage like when i was younger on here doing it in cold at side of the road,  so gave up and i ripped the engine out and put to one side.

A guy just sold me a low milage covered 8,000 miles for £50 a genuine 250SL engine so i am putting that in wednesday problem solved.
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« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2018, 07:48:57 »

Getting old!!
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« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2018, 18:02:05 »

originally I joined here when i was 19, i am now 32 years old....
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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2018, 20:52:45 »

A guy just sold me a low milage covered 8,000 miles for £50 a genuine 250SL engine

Wow! That's a result. Hope it runs well for you

Going to hit the shed myself this weekend (fan heater). Fresh variator, clutch and a host of trimmings going into my 250sl ready for a charity run the following sunday.
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2018, 19:50:06 »

 i am now 32 years old....

If that's getting old what does that me at 77?
Regards
Allen Morgan
 
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« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2018, 00:53:27 »

Fitted new engine tonight.
replaced starter solenoid

press starter button, nothing, lights work horn work Digidash works, pressing starter button again just a click.

Power to everything but no power to the spark plug or petrol pump, strange, new engine same problem ?

Checked things dave's says full charge new battery and fitted a new starter solenoid.

Still press start....... click

Put jump leads straight to + & - on starter motor and engine turns over fine.
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« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2018, 07:30:09 »

Sounds like a relay problem, check them all especially that 'master' ignition one at the front.
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« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2018, 21:20:46 »

We had the master one out at front, clean and looks brand new, it opens and closes and your turn the key, so that's working.

Next is relay at the back near battery when press starter motor the relay clicks as it should, still fuel pump has no power as like the CDIis dead or not doing its job.

AS i like this low mileage engine i just bought and put in, i am going to replace ALL Fusses and ALL relays so i know there eliminated also going to plug in the 2nd X9SL CDi i go.

If after that and all els fails, ill stripp the whole loom off and fit another one.
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« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2018, 23:28:55 »

Hidden fuse on the relay in the battery compartment?
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« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2018, 17:04:23 »

On X9 250SL:

front - Fuse collection in glove box- assorted power
           1x Relay fuse switch behind lights - kill switch system and main power
            2x Headlight relays between lights- Headlights

Rear- Fuse collection under seat- assorted power
         1x ignition relay next to battery -controls ignition start up
         1x 30 amp fuse on top of starter solenoid, - cut power to bike

There the only ones on the 250SL
           
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« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2018, 18:33:08 »

I do not have a clue with the X9 bikes as i have never worked on one BUT...you say you have had this engine running on the bench, if so.
How did you set it up to run, what is the difference between the two set ups if it will now NOT run?
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« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2018, 11:26:10 »

Sounds like as you have the same problem having changed the whole engine, assuming you had all connections correct originally and have still got them correct, that the fault is with another component and on a bike of this age and knowing that Italian wiring of the era was a bit wonky, I would be inclined to change the loom as you suggested. Otherwise it can only be the ECU. The danger of changing the ECU before the loom, is that if the loom has a short it may have damaged the current ECU and may do so with another good one, so I'd change the loom first and if that fails then do the ECU.
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« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2018, 11:36:52 »

One other thing to check and I'm basing this on the 500 admittedly is the thick positive cable that goes to the starter motor. The 500 motor has an insulator washer on the stud then a nut and copper washer, the loop on the cable then goes on next before a lock washer and the nut. If you forget the insulated washer the live cable grounds onto the motor casing causing a short but unless you hold the starter button in for hours, there is no fuse for this and all that happens is the cable gets hot...eventually as even 14amps isn't a lot, you'd smell it!
No idea if the 250 is remotely similar.
Also the 250 shares the starter solenoid with the 500 models so check you have the battery lead and starter cable on the correct terminals and haven't got input and output reversed - not sure if the terminals are marked and it is possible to cross them over.
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« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2018, 15:22:00 »

My loom had a weak spot where the cluster of wires coming from the engine meets the main loom on the left of the tunnel. It just seems to hang there causing tension and I had to make a repair there. Might be worth a look.
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« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2018, 21:19:50 »

on mine the block connector to the ignition barrel was causing the Atlantic 500 panel dials etc,  to light up and the petrol pump primer to sound,then they all went out, so i cut it out admitedly to the cheap Chinese Barrel someone had fitted,joined and  soldered it to a gash Honda one in my box of bits.

Only last week it started rattling like a pig after a fair speed blast, eased it home on part throttle, took the underseat cover off and found the brains that slides onto a connector on the the side of Fuel injector, (the electronic bit of the fuel injection gubbins that meters the fuel via the ECU) was loose, pressed back onto the bayonet and got full revs whilst on the centre stand
next day not so bright and sunny  took her out on leaf strewn slippery roads,  but on the the main drag the ol gal pulls like a train again.
 Just need to get the speedo working.
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« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2018, 21:45:29 »

Thanks for all the advice guys, armed... i'm heading back to the garage tuesday on day off to hopefully progress.
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« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2018, 21:31:49 »

i went down and remembered what dave said, Dave was right there was a bad earth and there was problem with the earth off the starter motor, the dam starter motor was running in revers the wires was put on wrong way round. no harm done tho.

Sorted that out and it turns over nice with strong spark but wont fire up, as fuel not going to the crab pulled fuel line off and as i am starting up there is nothing pumping out, suspect fuel pump has no power or died.

But i am a dew step closer now
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 00:19:54 by Solo » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2018, 03:17:38 »

You should hear the pump priming assuming it is electronic, cant remember if carb models were such,
 if so try tapping can usually get them running, my Viva cut out going to a show after I fitted electronic pump when rebuilding the engine, a few taps later A/OK. BMC ADO 16 1100/1300s had fuel pumps in the boot(and maybe Minis too?)and if you couldnt hear it ticking trying to start with the ignition on obviousy(like on my Viva that time) they tend to get blocked with cruddy gunge if stood for a time.

Good luck.

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« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2018, 08:37:33 »

Use a tube and a funnel and fill the carb manually just to fire up the motor to get it going and eliminate any ignition faults then chase down the fuel pump problem. 250SL's have that vario-speed pump that uses pulses from the CDi (or is it from the ignition coil?) to set the fuel volume so check the connections to the pump and also the connector to the CDi and coil.
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« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2018, 21:26:43 »

copied daves way and bike fires so its fuel problem

Replaced the fuel pump with one of the silver 250SL and she fired up.

6 Months off road, its had an engine rebuild and new petrol pump, she is now ruining, just need to put all bots and bits back on.

2 hours of my free time every fortnight spent on the X9 hence long time to fix.

So happy she is alive i was like a school boy in a sweet shop when it fired up.

SOLO
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« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2018, 07:35:14 »

Give the old pump a tap or two and try to blow through it and re-connect to the bike and see if it works, it may just be dried up and stuck. If you can free it off put it back on and use it then you know the spare is a good one too and will have had a 'lube' as well and plug all the pipe entries to keep it wet inside while stored.
Considering the high price of those pumps it's a shame to bin one that just needs freeing off.
I think there may be a chance of damaging it if you simply connect it to the battery.
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« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2018, 00:42:49 »

Tryed the old pump like you said but i cant not get it to come back to life, i may take it apart and have a look but looks like motor may have burnt out.

Taken the Yellow X9 for a run today, can def tell the engine is low milage, the power is responsive and rapid pick up, showed how worn my old engine was.

Out on test ride ( night ) i was pulled by Police, my back side lights failed while i was out so got an blue light escort off the motorway

Carryed on my test ride with lights sorted, more problems propped up, my back brake started sticking so thats something to sort out once  back at garage.

All in all was  good ride and glas with the results of the rebuild
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