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Author Topic: Front braking  (Read 3683 times)
Techno
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« on: July 11, 2017, 14:48:54 »

Hi all

Having spent all my biking life on Jap bikes and still own and ride ZX10R & XJR1300, I bought the X10 for commuting which thus far it's proved to be brilliant at     

That said I find the front braking performance on the single front (left hand) disc quite poor it lacks both bite and power, when compared to similar Jap single disc set up's, I also feel the lever span is too big at the end for me to get a good pull on. 

I've bleed the caliper and now fitted TRW sintered pads, still with little improvement, and being an inline master cylinder getting a good pull (max leverage) requires being able to pull from the end of the lever, which I certainly can't do.  Has anyone found the front brake performance to be lacking as I have?

I'm looking at firstly adjust able levers, Piaggio's X10's aren't exactly common and I'm finding it difficult to get accessories.  As with all bikes/cars manufactures they use generic parts across models, which often means you can get cheaper parts as it's used on different models but is the same part what other Piaggios use the same master cylinder?  As you no doubt know Piaggio are part of the Aprillia group does anyone know if the brake master cylinders are used on any of them, as getting accessories for them will be a lot easier? 

Next step is to look into fitting a radial master cylinder.           
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Expat47
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« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2017, 15:18:37 »

I use both when breaking. The 70/30 is great for keeping things smooth but I use the 100% front to finish off the project. Compared to my Kawasaki they feel mushy but they're just smoother'n a babies butt.

Unless, of course, more drastic measures are indicated in which case I use everything Piaggio supplies, throw out the anchor, and hope the ABS was paying attention.
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« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2017, 15:30:07 »

Many years ago there was a guy in China that had an X9 and a really detailed blog on loads of mods he made to it. One of them was fitting adjustable levers. No idea what they were as it was all in foreign! If the X10 uses the same levers as the X9 then there is a lever out there somewhere, alternatively could a lever be heated up and bent so it sits initially closer to the grip?
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« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2017, 15:35:35 »

Many years ago there was a guy in China that had an X9 and a really detailed blog on loads of mods he made to it. One of them was fitting adjustable levers. No idea what they were as it was all in foreign! If the X10 uses the same levers as the X9 then there is a lever out there somewhere, alternatively could a lever be heated up and bent so it sits initially closer to the grip?

I'm thinking the X9 probably the Beverly and MP3 will have many common parts the levers being one of them, as I think they have the same brake system can anyone confirm that?

Heating and bending cast aluminium is a very hit and miss affair unfortunately I certainly wouldn't recommend it, if they were bullet then it would be a doddle.    
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dado099
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« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2017, 16:00:14 »

I'm not sure, but I think you can mount any lever/pump that fits bar diameter, also radial pumps !
Personally I wouldn't mess with brake system, it could take to very dangerous situations.
Consider that it is a cruise scooter and you don't need to brake with rear wheel up like Valentino Rossi !!!
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« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2017, 16:20:02 »

IConsider that it is a cruise scooter and you don't need to brake with rear wheel up like Valentino Rossi !!!

Indeed I do, that said it's very poor when compared to my son's has a Forza 300 single disc it's way better than the X10's more bite and power.     
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Noggin the Nog
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« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2017, 16:29:36 »

With it's linked brakes  it expects you to use the left hand lever quite a bit (left hand is STOP, right hand is GO kind of thing for non biker target market).
I like the linked brakes on my X10 as I have a similar system on my Guzzi. The proportional linked brakes on that are better than most human intervention can be - and I've had that confirmed by IAM riders who initially criticised me for using the foot brake too much but changed their minds after they'd ridden it.
I find that using the left lever for any initial braking, and then pulling on the right lever if I want more grabbing power is more than adequate.
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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2017, 18:57:15 »

This was on Maxi-muppets recently; I don't know if it helps.

http://www.maxi-muppets.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20690&p=268368&hilit=adjustable+levers#p268368

 
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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2017, 22:25:57 »


Definitely on the right track but these appear to be for a jap scoot  not sure they'll fit the X10 
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« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2017, 05:29:53 »

Definitely on the right track but these appear to be for a Burgman 400 not sure they'll fit the X10



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« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2017, 07:48:31 »

I fitted EBC sintered (HH) pads to the front left calliper which gave more bite for less lever effort but to get full front braking both levers must be used so that both callipers are in use. I have never ridden a scooter which has better brakes than the X10 so if yours are not that good then the pads and callipers are probably not in best condition and might need cleaning and greasing ( in the proper way of course). As an experienced rider I think its unlikely that you would need excessive hand strength if the brakes were working normally.
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Dave Milnes
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« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2017, 08:15:45 »

That same Ebay seller linked to on Muppets does also have lots of other types but the pictures are generic so not much help. There were 2 types of lever used on the X9, the old 250SL with the Honda motor may have had the other type to the rest of the range.
Early models used Brembo later ones Piaggio's own, but Fowlers website shows that some Yamaha's use the same lever so maybe look at Yamaha adjustable types. I think the mod I mentioned above required the original pivot bolt hole in the adjustable lever to be plugged then re-drilled off centre in order to bring the piston lever in line with the Piaggio cylinder.
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« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2017, 13:12:39 »

I fitted EBC sintered (HH) pads to the front left calliper which gave more bite for less lever effort but to get full front braking both levers must be used so that both callipers are in use. I have never ridden a scooter which has better brakes than the X10 so if yours are not that good then the pads and callipers are probably not in best condition and might need cleaning and greasing ( in the proper way of course). As an experienced rider I think its unlikely that you would need excessive hand strength if the brakes were working normally.

EBC pads a well known for eating discs, I've not used or fitted any for some time now. SBS are my preferred but are difficult to get in the UK for the X10, TRW are a OE supplier and of high quality.  It's all about feel and to some extent what I'm used to i.e 2 finger braking, putting the X10 on the brake tester it has overall power but not the bite/power of the Honda I mentioned, the system is fine.  It's quite possible the calipers/master cylinder just aren't up to the same standard as Honda.   
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Expat47
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« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2017, 14:24:01 »

I'll make the offer here, again: I can get SBS pads here for €25 a pair and mail them up to y'all.
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« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2017, 17:50:23 »

I'll make the offer here, again: I can get SBS pads here for €25 a pair and mail them up to y'all.

Hi Expat

I haven't forgotten your kind offer which I do appreciate, but as I said I'll give these a try. 

I'll get back to you and let you know.
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« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2017, 07:46:54 »

EBC pads a well known for eating discs.   
They have never eaten any of mine!
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Techno
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« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2017, 10:34:21 »

They have never eaten any of mine!

Try braking hard  ::

They don't like Jap multi pistons calipers either, they tend to twist locking in the caliper body and/wearing groves.   All down to the backing plate not being quite the same size.  I used to fit them as a matter of course until they were bought by an American company the quality just nose dived.  Moved on to SBS, Carbon Lorraine, Bendix and TRW.   
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