Engine cut out

[Martin H]

the bike cut out on me this morning a few hundred yards up the road, the engine just died. All the electrics still worked I just couldn't turn her back on.

Called out the recovery who were delayed by 50 mins so this gave me a chance to have a few tries at starting her up.. No joy.

Needless to say minutes before the recovery truck turned up she fired into life.  All I can think is it must have been crud in the fuel line.

Any other possible suggestions?

[Dave Milnes]

I doubt crud in the fuel.
More likely electrics and water.
Have you seen the topic on the badly exposed rear fusebox and other issues with water proofing on the X10?
Electrics are always first suspect on Piaggios!

[roadster]

Just to be clear was it only the starter button which gave no response or were other things not working when you turned the key on? Was the starter turning the engine over or was it dead?

[Mike H]

I doubt crud in the fuel.
More likely electrics and water.
Have you seen the topic on the badly exposed rear fusebox and other issues with water proofing on the X10?
Electrics are always first suspect on Piaggios!

A simple cruddied-up relay's pins can stop the injection working, for example, and that kind of thing.

Mine got off lightly I think, only the fan relay was affected, and needed rewiring. Have since replaced it with a brand new one as IMO the blades were still in a badly corroded state (fan still wouldn't have worked when needed! Rather find out now than during the next heatwave!).

[frankiej1949]

Had numerous problems with the electrics on my 350 fortunately whilst under warranty. Not as bad on the 500 but the ECU packed in on the rear suspension within 12 months. Did have problems with it cutting out but eventually restarted, unfortunately the problem cleared before i could get it into the dealer. However next time it went in there was nothing showing on the diagnostics. Loving the last 5 months with my Burgman, no such problems.

[spannerman]

I was an Robinsons (Canterbury) checking out if Beverly needed a new suppressor cap, a few USA riders have had cutting out problems, he did say that he's had a few caps come loose on X10's.   

[Martin H]

Just the starter was dead - all the other electrics seemed fine.  If it was damp would it just "dry out" and work again?  No issues since but must finish off the fuse box protection this weekend.

[Mike H]

This sounds more like a bad connection ~ a starter needs so much power that the slightest bit of series resistance will prevent the starter motor turning. Check relay and battery connections for oxidation or if loose?

EDIT: there is also of course the starter inhibitor, if you've got one; if the ECU thinks there's a problem that will mean the engine won't run, or for safety shouldn't be started in the fisrt place. (?)

[Martin H]

Will do - ta

[roadster]

Just the starter was dead - all the other electrics seemed fine.  If it was damp would it just "dry out" and work again?  No issues since but must finish off the fuse box protection this weekend.

Bearing in mind that the initial problem occurred while already running the most likely problem is with one of the miniature relays in the fusebox. These are identical and can therefore be swapped around if you need to. But if the connector side of the fuse box has already become corroded or caked in wet dirt that would be the answer.

[Mike H]

^ I concur. As I wrote earlier re fan relay.....

[Techno]

I've had this twice now, first time after having the bike for about a week and the second time yesterday!  On both occasions they bike had been running for about an hour running at about 70mph, the bike just dies, pull over try to restart nothing both red light are on.  Turn off, turn off turn on and it will start, ride off!

When this first happened I checked all the relays etc and this prompted me into stripping (see here http://109.203.125.33/~x9owners/forum/index.php?topic=26121.0) it and checking/fixing all the known issues.  The relays/fuses are in good condition, certainty no corrosion outwardly, I suppose it's still possible there is internally.

Is there any other known possibilities for this fault save me going through everything?       

[Expat47]

This was a little trait of the X10 and it had to do with the connection leading off the spark plug. My 2012 was the 1st one that they had to deal with and it took them some time to get it figured out. The 1st thing they did was replace the wire & connectors. Then, when that only worked for a few weeks they wrapped some electrician's tape around the connectors & wire. That lasted about a month and they, once again changed the wire but this second time it was a whole different manufacture or something as the chief mechanic swore this was the "solution". So far 20,000Km later it's still working so I guess he was right.

I've talked with others that had the same problem and they were told all kinds of silly shite was the cause but it was just a piece of bad product.

Sorry I can't be more specific about what the wire thingie is called but it's about 5 inches long and comes off the spark plug. Make sure you've got the "new" model and this may not happen again.

Of course.... with all the rain you've had up there who knows.

[Techno]

You mean the HT lead (HV) I think this is the think black wire that goes into the plug cap see here https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/5689266/x10-350-x10-350-4t-4v-i-e-e3-chassis-number-prefix-zapm76201-zapm76200-2012-2015-4t-4v-i-e-e3-chassis-number-prefix-zapm76201-za/voltage-regulators-electronic-control-units-ecu-h-t-coil part 8

I've not used the bike for about 6 weeks been away with work so missed all the rain.

[Expat47]

You mean the HT lead (HV) I think this is the think black wire that goes into the plug cap see here https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/5689266/x10-350-x10-350-4t-4v-i-e-e3-chassis-number-prefix-zapm76201-zapm76200-2012-2015-4t-4v-i-e-e3-chassis-number-prefix-zapm76201-za/voltage-regulators-electronic-control-units-ecu-h-t-coil part 8

I've not used the bike for about 6 weeks been away with work so missed all the rain.

They taped up the whole assembly from 7 to 9 (and maybe 10) & made a point to do it as tightly as possible. But, then this was the bit that was, eventually, changed out.

[Techno]

Hi Expat 

I've ordered the later or as stated replacement plug cap, I used the bike this morning and it was wet no issues at all.

Looks like typical Italian electrics!!!   

[spannerman]

Getting the cap off the spark plug if it has the Green rubber ring was impossible for me, I ended up snapping it, it is a 90 degree angle, so my reasoning is, if anyone has got that off for servicing in the past, they probably had to force it and introduced hairline cracks in the porcelain insulator of the plug causing 'tracking out', the bike stops and will not restart until the engine heat dries out the plug. 
The revised new plug cap is a better 'slimmer' fit and solves the problem.     

[Techno]

will not restart until the engine heat dries out the plug. 
The revised new plug cap is a better 'slimmer' fit and solves the problem.

Thing is with mine it's only happened in the dry and sunny days!  If it's not the cap which it still could be, it could be the immobiliser I know these can cause these intermittent cut out from dealing with them a larger bikes, I would remove them from any bike I bought, or back in the day, pay the dealer to say it's been fitted to get the certificate and throw the box in the draw.       

[Expat47]

Every time it happened to me it was hot & dry (Mediterranean dry as in it ain't rained in a month) and I attributed it to heat expansion. But, whatever it was, crappy quality was the ultimate cause.

[Techno]

Yer hopefully fitting a new cap and HT lead will see the back of it.

[Techno]

New cap and HT lead arrived this morning.

Mine was indeed fitted with a green rubber cover type, and was/is difficult to remove it was when I changed the plug last month.  On close inspection there is a small area which appears to have been rubbing on the engine casing whether this is the issue I'm unsure its not deep but could potentially be a source of aching who knows.

The new type cap looks outwardly the same it's still NGK but has a larger/thinker black rubber on the end and the part No is different, this could just be because of the rubber.  I haven't replaced the HT lead it look fine to me being copper it's unlikely to have broken down at only 8k unlike carbon core can, I'll run it and see what happens.       

[Techno]

Bikes done another almost 2k and so far no issues, hopefully that's the end of it