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Author Topic: New x8 owner few issues  (Read 47927 times)
sutty86
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« on: December 01, 2016, 14:27:10 »

bought a very cheap x8 guy seemed reasonable and told me he had snapped the drivebelt.
the bike starts great and runs nice , idles well.
Battery without starting is 12.3 and on running is 12.8 not sure if they are correct values but like i said everything seems to work electonic anyways,

i have a geared backgroud and this is my first scooter,
dont have a clue where to start with belts and rails , is this an easy job for a guy like myself to do or is it best leaving to the experts.

also needs a speedo cable
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Dave Milnes
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« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2016, 15:16:43 »

The speedo is electronic with a sensor under the back wheel.
I'm guessing it's a 125 in which case if you remove the belt casing what is needed should be obvious. Two nuts!
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sutty86
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« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2016, 15:21:07 »

Ohhhh I thought this was the Speedo cable


In that case what the hell is it haha

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Dave Milnes
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« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2016, 18:07:48 »

Dunno, but if it had a hub drive speedo you would see a black plastic 'cone' between the fork leg and the wheel hub. Even so it would be electronic as apart from the 'mopeds' Piaggio make they are all an induction sensor AFAIK.
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sutty86
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« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2016, 21:32:56 »

Another question which variator locking tool should be used
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Dave Milnes
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« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2016, 16:11:48 »

The Buzzetti one seen on Ebay a lot for the Piaggio/Gilera Leader 125/200cc motor unit. There is only the factory tool for the 400/500 motors which occasionally surfaces on Ebay. So the best alternative is an electric or air ratchet gun.
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« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2016, 17:52:53 »

I had a Leader engined Aprilia Atlantic, for over 9 years and never touched the belt, well except to check the tension.OK it was more a runabout back up for my old car,so didnt do a big mileage. I found eventually fitting a 14 AMP battery improved winter starting , but it did have the much mentioned propensity to not want to respond to the throttle till fully warmed up in cold winter conditions.
John Thomson the well known Piaggio dealer used to say it was all down to valve adjustment on the 4 valver 125,but another reason the Ape Maxi Scoot was low mileage, was because it gave me a taste for geared bikes, as a born again two wheeler,for the enth time and the Atlantic 125 always ran like a sowing machine and one air ambulance charity ride after a big bike let me down, she kept up with the traffic flow, but occassionally a bit of forward planning was needed when doing overtakes.  however I was gratefull to have bought another Atlantic, an older type 500 after my 1000 Futura skidded down the road with my leg trapped under. Mercifully nothing broken but a damaged knee, 16 stitches, but the Scoot was the only bike I could ride for a while. Hasn't stopped me getting a couple more Italian crotch rockets since, and currently have 3 Aprilia and 2 Cagivas (always wanted an MV Augusta and at least the frames are such).despite various folk telling me I am too old for such indulgencies.
 
Anyway good luck and hope the Piaggio serves you as well as my one in a different party frock did.
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sutty86
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« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2016, 23:14:28 »

The Buzzetti one seen on Ebay a lot for the Piaggio/Gilera Leader 125/200cc motor unit. There is only the factory tool for the 400/500 motors which occasionally surfaces on Ebay. So the best alternative is an electric or air ratchet gun.
thank you ,
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sutty86
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« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2016, 16:37:33 »

Torque wrench came today,
Belt should be here tomorrow,
Tries pulling apart air box today to inspect the filter , so I'm missing most of the screws had two screws in and the two bigger screws(plastic handles on top)
But one of the screws is rounded off , not sure how I'm gonna get it out,any ideas, screw it out?

Also managed to eventually try to pull crank case apart , kissing also one bolt centre top , had to plug gas a few to loosen them as I had a screw driver adapter with socket adapter snap at first go, managed to find extension and adapter for smaller 8mm socket.
Yet to use torque wrench.

Am I right in thinking for the air box I need m3x20mm?
Anyone know what size bolt I need for crank case

Cheers
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sutty86
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« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2016, 17:39:25 »

Also gear oil black plastic cover is snapped off so all I have is a flush piece of plastic , any ideas again haha
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Dave Milnes
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« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2016, 19:37:56 »

Sounds like a typical neglected 125. Snapped or missing screws/bolts is quite normal when previous owners don't do maintenance. A lot of 125's are bought as 'temporary' or even cheap as chips run into the ground and spend zero on them expendable tools.
If they are looked after, maintained and have the usual problem prevention measures done, they are fine, but then you can't buy them for next to nothing. Cheap means that they need a lot of work as you are finding out. drill out and replace with new with coppaslip on the threads. No idea about 125 bolt sizes but often on the parts diagrams on such as Fowlers or Easyparts the clue is in the name.
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sutty86
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« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2016, 08:00:14 »

To be fair Dave I didn't really pay anything for the x8, the guy totally legit though(I sound very dodgy now)
Well is there any secret to split the CVT case , got half of it off, keeps getting wedged over oil part.
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parnell
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« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2016, 06:57:15 »

Ohhhh I thought this was the Speedo cable


In that case what the hell is it haha


That's the hydraulic brake fluid cable
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Dave Milnes
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« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2016, 08:29:06 »

It does, doesn't it!
Is there a brake on both sides or just the one? Isn't the X8 same as X9 with two discs and linked rear?
X7 and Xevo are a single disc IIRC. Seen so few of them but I'm sure Solo's had two.
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sutty86
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« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2016, 09:24:56 »

Guys I'm sure the cable which is hanging loose to the right is deffo the Speedo cable.

Managed to get cover off



Presume it's seem better days.

Need to replace washers


What do you think happened to washer.
Also need new rollers
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sutty86
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« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2016, 09:25:53 »

Power is gone after belt install.
Think I've not put belt on properly.
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Dave Milnes
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« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2016, 12:37:07 »

Have you used the right weight rollers (9g?) heavier ones kill acceleration.
Are those the washers that go on the clutch shaft?
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sutty86
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« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2016, 16:22:15 »

Washers from variator shaft  two washers , none on the clutch assembly shaft.
I have not changed the rollers yet not got around to it.
Was going to see if it started stock
Before I throw my money on the bike.

Before I installed belt and removed transmission cover when you pulled the throttle it was revving great , no hiccuping or loss of power.
Since belt install it starts fine/idles nicely , clutch assembly spinning.
But when you blip the throttle bike trys to move to left on centre stand(centrifuge???)
And power dies goes just above idle then just does random stuff.
I sat on the bike after install and it wouldn't move fully throttle open it would jerk around a metre than stop.

Very strange
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Dave Milnes
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« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2016, 16:09:21 »

Without any belt fitted the throttle is a lot crisper and if the mixtures are way out a no load rev-up would still seem OK, but once the belt is fitted there is quite a drag and if the engine is way off tune and producing little power, it will now be obvious.
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« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2016, 16:35:54 »

Sounds like something is binding - can you try turning belt / clutch and wheel by hand, to find out what's going on
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sutty86
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« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2016, 00:05:27 »

Bikes up and running finally , took it for a spin of the village somewhere I know im safe if anything happened.

Drove beautiful initially was jerky through some revving but after five minutes the scooter was like butter.
I have fitted new half pulley as cogs/spine were worn on the old one and out new 8g rollers in,.

One thing I did notice was the lights (all work) where flickering,dimming whilst I was riding I initially thought battery but battery checks are fine.
Any ideas?
Also got a malossi red filter here I have read about being a nice upgrade , can I just swap or will I have to tinker with upping jets etc
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sutty86
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« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2016, 12:54:06 »

Right sorted out the electric issue, after tightening and smootering the termianls with  vaseline.
Fitted a malossi red air filter but the bike kept bogging I think I may need to upgrade carb add some new jets, which at the minute is not the priority.

Stuck clean OEM filter back in, and now have to wait five minutes for bike to warm up, as it's not responsive totally actually quite dangerous, if I put throttle down it won't kick in to speed then suddenly start pulling away which I'm not okay with.
Brand new spark plug,new oil,fresh fuel with redex.

I want to clean the carb any tips , is it easy to do , can I mess it up?I think this may help as the bike was sat for at least two months.
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Dave Milnes
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« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2016, 14:34:24 »

Was going to suggest probably a poor battery connection. Without the resistance of the battery the alternator will pulse the power.
The problem with the Malossi is it has removed the air resistance of the filter cannister. That will have weakened the mixture a lot. It will now be way out across the range, but you will also have altered the flow rate across the rev range so just about every jet or adjustment will be wrong. A rolling road tune will be the only way to restore it to near normal. As the filter gets clogged, and it will from the oily fumes out of the crankcase breather, it will need constant cleaning. The original filter is designed to drain off the condensated oil fumes and not contaminate the filter element so they are not a problem. Malossi are race items not really intended for long term street use so although it may improve performance, it has brought more maintenance requirement.
It sounds like the set up was weak before if the standard filter doesn't run properly. Muffle the inlet of the filter cannister and see it that improves pickup, so you can get an idea if it is weak or actually rich. 125's invariably run poor when cold and hesitate, they nearly all are tuned too weak probably to meet emissions regs from an old engine design.
They also run far better with the valve clearances a few thou wider than book figures for some reason. Tight clearances run really poorly.
The air filter should have no effect on warm up time unless the Malossi was getting air from close to the exhaust system but only when stationary idling would it really make a difference.
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sutty86
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« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2016, 18:02:24 »

Was going to suggest probably a poor battery connection. Without the resistance of the battery the alternator will pulse the power.
The problem with the Malossi is it has removed the air resistance of the filter cannister. That will have weakened the mixture a lot. It will now be way out across the range, but you will also have altered the flow rate across the rev range so just about every jet or adjustment will be wrong. A rolling road tune will be the only way to restore it to near normal. As the filter gets clogged, and it will from the oily fumes out of the crankcase breather, it will need constant cleaning. The original filter is designed to drain off the condensated oil fumes and not contaminate the filter element so they are not a problem. Malossi are race items not really intended for long term street use so although it may improve performance, it has brought more maintenance requirement.
It sounds like the set up was weak before if the standard filter doesn't run properly. Muffle the inlet of the filter cannister and see it that improves pickup, so you can get an idea if it is weak or actually rich. 125's invariably run poor when cold and hesitate, they nearly all are tuned too weak probably to meet emissions regs from an old engine design.
They also run far better with the valve clearances a few thou wider than book figures for some reason. Tight clearances run really poorly.
The air filter should have no effect on warm up time unless the Malossi was getting air from close to the exhaust system but only when stationary idling would it really make a difference.

Thanks one again for the informative post Dave.
Sorry my have mistaken the bike original had stock filter, I replaced with malossi only for ten mins as it was constantly bogging.
Stock filter is back in , I have put in a brand new cr8eix in , previously they was a cr9eix in , that shouldn't affect anything.

Going for a ride in an hour just to get my bearings on it before I do the commute to work tomorrow, (rush hour)
I can't complain really I paid nothing for it and now have it 95percent , I've learnt lots from the forum and done the work myself ,
I should just stop comparing it to my old fuel injected 125s
I really miss my Derbi terra
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sutty86
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« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2016, 20:38:01 »

Sorted it , whilst I was checking the air box (I need a new one) I was going to go around the edges with gorilla tape I noticed where the battered screws didn't sit flush and basically there was a slight opening.
Just been out rode amazing very happy
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« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2016, 22:32:19 »

A-ha! 

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« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2016, 19:40:43 »

So the saga continues,
Managed to get to work yesterday 18miles using back roads, didn't fancy going on dual carriageway with the scooter hunting around 49mph(GPS)

So scooter was fine if I wouldn't open the throttle when , got to work, parked up.
14 hour shift (also bad day)
Went to start her up to warm up and again, similar problem, I can hear the start motor but engine not turning over, no spark or compression.
Battery is good also tried jump starting ,
All lights work etc.

Was going to call rac have basic cover but with the late time my last train home was due , so left the bike at work.

So anyone had issues with starter motor or the Bendix , I think possibly the Bendix has been knocked out of position whilst riding to work.
Was going to order a new one today but really need to see what's going on.

Also got seafoam today in post as I think the carb may need cleaning but I'm worried about doing it myself.
Guy offered to do it locally for £70 .(too much)

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« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2016, 22:44:14 »

Just got back from attempting to sort my scooter out after thinking it was the Bendix,

Well I'm back to square one,
Pulled the brand new variator pulley out which is days old, totally shredded again in the middle along with a brand new outer washer which is days old too.

Exact same reason before, what am i doing wrong am i torquing too hard (impact wrench)
But previous seller didn't have said wrench, and had exact same problem.
Splines still look good .
Pulling my hair out.








Looks like I'm going to have to buy another pulley and washer.

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« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2016, 09:25:15 »

All I can suggest is to make sure you have the correct spacers on the crank and between the pulley halves and behind the nut and fit the complete assembly without the belt so you can see where on the shaft the pulley sits and that the nut is correctly pressing on the outer half.
Then refit the outer half with the clutch and belt and make sure you get the outer half in the same place and not spaced further out. If it won't go on as far, then you need more slack in the belt so it is completely slack between the front pulley halves. Also the washer behind the nut should be a lock washer, usually a concave spring which must go on domed side to the nut so it squashes it flat.
Check the workshop manual for position of washers and spacers around the variator. I am not familiar with the 125/250 but the 500 has a radius spacer on the shaft first then the inner half with ramp plate and rollers the inner tube slides inside this, then there is a thick washer before the outer fixed half pulley then two more washers and the nut. When you torque the nut the whole assembly is squeezed together not just the outer pulley onto the splines. The 125 should be similar I would have thought?
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« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2016, 10:03:39 »

Exact same reason before, what am i doing wrong am i torquing too hard (impact wrench)
But previous seller didn't have said wrench, and had exact same problem.
Splines still look good .
Pulling my hair out

At a guess I would say that a) you have found you rattle & b) the nut was not replaced with a new item, or if using s/h item it was not thread locked, if neither of those options apply then either  the nut was under torqued, or the there is an error in the assembly method.
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sutty86
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« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2016, 11:59:40 »

At a guess I would say that a) you have found you rattle & b) the nut was not replaced with a new item, or if using s/h item it was not thread locked, if neither of those options apply then either  the nut was under torqued, or the there is an error in the assembly method.
All washers were new ,
I'm sure I did everything correctly.
Variator plate, variator, bush , washer sits in recess of new pulley,washer again, castle washer and new beville washer nut.
Torqued and no play in the system
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« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2016, 12:22:53 »

Have a look at this bud, not identicle to yours but very close .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiEA9SXhtng
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« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2016, 14:19:18 »

Have a look at this bud, not identicle to yours but very close .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiEA9SXhtng

Exact video I followed hahaha fantastic videos btw they do.
Just spoken to a piaggio dealer told me possibly the shaft is bent hence not spinning true and basically said I may need a new engine not worth fixing ,
Anyone know how to check so I can hopefully void this
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« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2016, 16:12:30 »

That is a possibility especially when using a manual torque wrench as the load is on an unsupported shaft. Using a rattle gun doesn't apply any sideways force although I didn't spot any flex in the video, you don't know what the previous owner did.
The official locking tool for the 500 braces the shaft at two places against the casing but the ones for the smaller models just lock from turning as torque is higher.
You can't start the engine without an outer pulley fitted so running it and observing the shaft or pulley for wobble isn't possible.
It would seem the nut should always be replaced by a new one as it has a crush washer built in and thread lock applied but I still find it hard to understand how a loose nut shreds the splines as the splines are supposed to be man enough to transfer all the power. The Honda NC drive sprocket floats on the splined shaft so there is no need to lock the splined pulley purely to make it strong enough, you are only torquing it on a scooter because the inner half floats for gearing and you need the outer half to stay put. This has me baffled.
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« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2016, 16:26:27 »

Check the workshop manual for position of washers and spacers around the variator.

Damage to washer looks identical, something is definitely going on, I did wonder whether any bits are missing from previously. (?)

I would want to see an exploded diagram of all parts and identify each one and make sure I've actually got it.

.
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« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2016, 16:43:25 »

Damage to washer looks identical, something is definitely going on, I did wonder whether any bits are missing from previously. (?)

I would want to see an exploded diagram of all parts and identify each one and make sure I've actually got it.

.
I'm going to buy everything from fowler's , exact, no re using any old stuff.
So new variator,plate,slides,bush, washers pulley and nuts and fingers crossed it works.
I'm going to examine spline later on as I'm at work at the minute and it's sat there
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« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2016, 16:52:32 »

http://oem-parts.hu/en/parts/piaggio/x8-125/x8-125-potenziato-2005-2006/engine-driving-pulley
Did everything similar apart from stuck washer behind pulley in between belt as there is a recess and was told
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« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2016, 18:44:59 »

Checked shaft it's larger by a mm or two at the front and back ___------------___
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« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2016, 23:04:22 »

Are you saying tops of the splines are bitten off in between? Lower than they should be?


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« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2016, 00:57:25 »

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« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2016, 11:54:49 »

Ah right so I was right I guessed that when the belt broke it jammed the variator, if only briefly, but enough to rip the splines off including the shaft.

That is well chewed, in fact "FUBAR"  (aka, scrap)

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« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2016, 13:41:21 »


FML
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« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2016, 16:14:07 »


Possible good news
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« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2016, 16:46:28 »

The splines don't have to be consistent. The inner ramp plate is splined to the shaft then the inner pulley half slides on that spacer tube so the splines in the middle part are not doing anything, then the outer pulley is splined so drive from the shaft is sent via the splines both to the ramp plate and the outer pulley half.
All I can think is that if the nut comes loose, the outer pulley gets pushed off the splines so they nibble away at the inner end of the alloy splines in the outer pulley until there is none left.

I wonder if in this case because you initially torqued the nut against the belt that after correcting the belt slack and re torquing the nut because it had already been 'flattened' it was effectively a used nut, and that if you had used another new nut the thing wouldn't have come loose. Try another used outer pulley and brand new nut and if it does it again throw it in the canal!
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« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2016, 17:13:50 »

I think that Dave's advice on thickness and order of spacers, washers and bush remains the basis of the problem. Torque and nut will only affect reliability of the assembly. the position of the bits remain the same with finger tightness. Wrong positioning will cause mis alignment with the clutch and rear pulley. even a slight mis alignment may be causing problems.
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« Reply #45 on: December 22, 2016, 18:10:14 »

The splines don't have to be consistent. The inner ramp plate is splined to the shaft then the inner pulley half slides on that spacer tube so the splines in the middle part are not doing anything, then the outer pulley is splined so drive from the shaft is sent via the splines both to the ramp plate and the outer pulley half.
All I can think is that if the nut comes loose, the outer pulley gets pushed off the splines so they nibble away at the inner end of the alloy splines in the outer pulley until there is none left.

I wonder if in this case because you initially torqued the nut against the belt that after correcting the belt slack and re torquing the nut because it had already been 'flattened' it was effectively a used nut, and that if you had used another new nut the thing wouldn't have come loose. Try another used outer pulley and brand new nut and if it does it again throw it in the canal!
Used pulleys are hard to come by , think you can get a brand new one for twenty on eBay again,
One thing which is bugging me is on the exploded diagram or my scooter there is no rear washer behind the pulley, but every video and other text I've read mention it (the pulley as a recess for a washer.
I may just go off what the exploded diagrams shows and torque it , will a strap wrench do for holding the variator
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« Reply #46 on: December 23, 2016, 08:57:49 »

I would be inclined to assemble and tighten the whole thing without the belt and rollers. the check statically that the engine turns easily in the normal direction of rotation and that the outer pulley half is completely solid on the crankshaft and fully engaged on the outer part of the spline. Also check that the inner pulley moves freely in and out and that the ramp plate is also fully engaged and clamped on the crankshaft splines. Then start the engine and check that everything is running true when revving up. Finally check everything statically again including end float of the crank. This should verify that the geometry is all OK including the length of the inner spacer and any washers in the clamped stack.
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« Reply #47 on: December 23, 2016, 11:47:02 »

Without the rollers the inner pulley won't move but if you fitted the rollers once they had spun out and pushed the pulley inwards as revs dropped they would all be loose in the channels and may not like being shook around unloaded. They need the belt under tension to push the pulley back keeping the rollers nipped.
You could just fit the inner ramp plate tube washers and outer pulley as these are the parts that are squeezed by the torqued nut, the inner pulley simply floats on the tube, only driven by the three notches with sliders from the ramp plate.
With the need for a new nut each time, although doing this will prove the assembly it also uses up another nut but you should be able to detect any wobble.
A strap wrench is what can bend the shaft as there is no support for the shaft so the application of torque can bend it although some owners use these, and some just wedge the pulley with a bit of the old broken belt and they get away with it. The toothed connection to the starter ring braces the pulley from sideways movement as long as you do the leverage vertically (with the torque wrench handle horizontal).
I would have thought the bend would need to be quite severe to shake the torqued assembly loose and grind away the splines as well.
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« Reply #48 on: December 23, 2016, 12:59:12 »

Never seen a splined shaft like that before. Genuinely thought it was damaged.
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« Reply #49 on: December 23, 2016, 21:26:26 »

Never seen a splined shaft like that before. Genuinely thought it was damaged.

A Vespa owner mentioned it to me it's totally normal.
Buying all new is costly.
On the schematics on fowler's and other company's there is no washer behind the half pulley like I have seen everywhere else maybe that's were I went wrong but it's a minor as in mm
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« Reply #50 on: December 23, 2016, 23:07:28 »

Don't suppose anyone got a Haynes and can tell me which setup they go with
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« Reply #51 on: December 24, 2016, 11:34:19 »

When you slid the end pulley half onto the shaft spline, did it feel like a good fit, or a bit sloppy?

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« Reply #52 on: December 24, 2016, 12:13:13 »

Don't suppose anyone got a Haynes 


Go here to read an online Piaggio manual for your machine .... https://www.scribd.com/doc/128870316/Piaggio-X8-125-200-EN ... to save you a bit of time, the relevant pages are 91 to 111 inclusive
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« Reply #53 on: December 24, 2016, 12:28:38 »


Go here to read an online Piaggio manual for your machine .... https://www.scribd.com/doc/128870316/Piaggio-X8-125-200-EN ... to save you a bit of time, the relevant pages are 91 to 111 inclusive
Legend....



Mike was intially a good fit, grooves all fit into place etc
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« Reply #54 on: December 24, 2016, 15:55:29 »

Curiouser and curiouser said Alice...
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« Reply #55 on: December 24, 2016, 20:51:57 »

Well, Mike, at least you're a good fit .......
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sutty86
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« Reply #56 on: December 27, 2016, 22:34:58 »

The sage continues,
Just waiting for washers/bolts to come now,
Managed to bag new indicators ,clutch and variator(used) for £20 which I thought was a bargin

Right another wee question
When I revved my bike on the center stand it pull to the left(rear)
I have also noticed a few mm play in rear tyre.
Any advice surely this is not normal
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« Reply #57 on: December 28, 2016, 09:36:37 »

Radial play is not a problem all drop gears have some lash in them. There shouldn't be any lateral movement along the axle or horizontal or vertical 'wobble' though.
The axle is held at the RH end by a bearing in the swing arm that the silencer is bolted to and this can fail.
On the 500 there is a spacer that goes on the axle after the hub and one that goes between the the swing arm and the hub nut and a lot of mechanics both amateur and professional put both spacers on next to each other and this misaligns the rear wheel and wears the bearing. I don't know if the 125 is the same but if it is, check for this. The tapered one goes on first before the arm and the parallel one last before the nut. Also check the wheel bolts for tightness, nipped but not heaved on. The hub nut itself has been known to come loose if the split pin isn't fitted correctly or a spacer is missing so the nut goes on too far missing the split pin completely.
The bearing in the gearbox usually withstands a faulty spacer fit so long as it's not for too long, but the one in the swing arm fails immediately! Cheap and simple to replace, drift and hammer job.
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« Reply #58 on: December 28, 2016, 10:27:55 »

Radial play is not a problem all drop gears have some lash in them. There shouldn't be any lateral movement along the axle or horizontal or vertical 'wobble' though.
The axle is held at the RH end by a bearing in the swing arm that the silencer is bolted to and this can fail.
On the 500 there is a spacer that goes on the axle after the hub and one that goes between the the swing arm and the hub nut and a lot of mechanics both amateur and professional put both spacers on next to each other and this misaligns the rear wheel and wears the bearing. I don't know if the 125 is the same but if it is, check for this. The tapered one goes on first before the arm and the parallel one last before the nut. Also check the wheel bolts for tightness, nipped but not heaved on. The hub nut itself has been known to come loose if the split pin isn't fitted correctly or a spacer is missing so the nut goes on too far missing the split pin completely.
The bearing in the gearbox usually withstands a faulty spacer fit so long as it's not for too long, but the one in the swing arm fails immediately! Cheap and simple to replace, drift and hammer job.
Once again cheers dave
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« Reply #59 on: December 29, 2016, 21:12:18 »

Getting ready to sort it all out tomorrow
Just thought I would post this up make sure I've got it right

The  washer (thicker) before the nut will be replaced with a castle washer I have at work which is splined also (don't have kick-start)
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« Reply #60 on: December 30, 2016, 11:49:58 »

Are you sure the new pulley half (bottom right of picture) has got splines in the middle? I had to save it off then zoom in and zoom in and zoom in and still only just about see what might be spline teeth, plus the metal is not very thick. Seems all a bit strange to me.

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« Reply #61 on: December 30, 2016, 18:34:05 »

Yeah definitely got spline teeth
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« Reply #62 on: December 30, 2016, 19:26:50 »

Can assure you it's splined buddy
RMS pulley

Good to go
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« Reply #63 on: December 31, 2016, 12:37:36 »

Hmmm! Had some trouble finding it on the net, but is this?

http://www.scooter-attack.com/front-pulley-rms-maxi-r100320150-39.html?___store=sa_en


Still not convinced it's strong enough - the teeth still seem very shallow to me and the metal is not thick. Other makes I've seen have a steel washer which have the actual spline teeth on, which is then keyed to the pulley by tabs that fit in slots in the pulley. The pair are held together by the shaft nut.


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« Reply #64 on: December 31, 2016, 13:16:13 »

^^^ I agree Mike, it does look feeble on the shaft, I wonder if the way they got it made as a pattern part was to reduce the depth of engagement on the splines compared to OEM spec. I THINK that the steel part you mention is only used on models with a kickstarter, is this the sort of thing that you're thinking of bud ..... http://www.myscooterparts.co.uk/auto-scooter-parts-and-accessories/starter-components/scooter/motorcycle/kickstarter-toothed-washer---fits-to-variator-outer-pulley/vb20300/
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« Reply #65 on: December 31, 2016, 21:42:11 »

Hmmm! Had some trouble finding it on the net, but is this?

http://www.scooter-attack.com/front-pulley-rms-maxi-r100320150-39.html?___store=sa_en


Still not convinced it's strong enough - the teeth still seem very shallow to me and the metal is not thick. Other makes I've seen have a steel washer which have the actual spline teeth on, which is then keyed to the pulley by tabs that fit in slots in the pulley. The pair are held together by the shaft nut.



Mike I don't think they do them for the 125 model.
I've looked high and low , but this is the OEM standard pulley
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« Reply #66 on: January 01, 2017, 16:27:33 »

^^^ I agree Mike, it does look feeble on the shaft, I wonder if the way they got it made as a pattern part was to reduce the depth of engagement on the splines compared to OEM spec. I THINK that the steel part you mention is only used on models with a kickstarter, is this the sort of thing that you're thinking of bud ..... http://www.myscooterparts.co.uk/auto-scooter-parts-and-accessories/starter-components/scooter/motorcycle/kickstarter-toothed-washer---fits-to-variator-outer-pulley/vb20300/

No wasn't exactly like that, the steel tabbed washer was completely flat, and locked down with the nut so it doesn't move, of course I can't find it again now as I can't remember what I typed in the search box before. 



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