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Author Topic: New x8 owner few issues  (Read 47926 times)
sutty86
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« on: December 01, 2016, 14:27:10 »

bought a very cheap x8 guy seemed reasonable and told me he had snapped the drivebelt.
the bike starts great and runs nice , idles well.
Battery without starting is 12.3 and on running is 12.8 not sure if they are correct values but like i said everything seems to work electonic anyways,

i have a geared backgroud and this is my first scooter,
dont have a clue where to start with belts and rails , is this an easy job for a guy like myself to do or is it best leaving to the experts.

also needs a speedo cable
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Dave Milnes
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« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2016, 15:16:43 »

The speedo is electronic with a sensor under the back wheel.
I'm guessing it's a 125 in which case if you remove the belt casing what is needed should be obvious. Two nuts!
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2016 Maxsym 600i Sport
Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019, Loch Doon 2020, Cumbria 2021.
sutty86
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« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2016, 15:21:07 »

Ohhhh I thought this was the Speedo cable


In that case what the hell is it haha

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Dave Milnes
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« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2016, 18:07:48 »

Dunno, but if it had a hub drive speedo you would see a black plastic 'cone' between the fork leg and the wheel hub. Even so it would be electronic as apart from the 'mopeds' Piaggio make they are all an induction sensor AFAIK.
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2016 Maxsym 600i Sport
Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019, Loch Doon 2020, Cumbria 2021.
sutty86
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« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2016, 21:32:56 »

Another question which variator locking tool should be used
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Dave Milnes
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« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2016, 16:11:48 »

The Buzzetti one seen on Ebay a lot for the Piaggio/Gilera Leader 125/200cc motor unit. There is only the factory tool for the 400/500 motors which occasionally surfaces on Ebay. So the best alternative is an electric or air ratchet gun.
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2016 Maxsym 600i Sport
Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019, Loch Doon 2020, Cumbria 2021.
Gav
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« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2016, 17:52:53 »

I had a Leader engined Aprilia Atlantic, for over 9 years and never touched the belt, well except to check the tension.OK it was more a runabout back up for my old car,so didnt do a big mileage. I found eventually fitting a 14 AMP battery improved winter starting , but it did have the much mentioned propensity to not want to respond to the throttle till fully warmed up in cold winter conditions.
John Thomson the well known Piaggio dealer used to say it was all down to valve adjustment on the 4 valver 125,but another reason the Ape Maxi Scoot was low mileage, was because it gave me a taste for geared bikes, as a born again two wheeler,for the enth time and the Atlantic 125 always ran like a sowing machine and one air ambulance charity ride after a big bike let me down, she kept up with the traffic flow, but occassionally a bit of forward planning was needed when doing overtakes.  however I was gratefull to have bought another Atlantic, an older type 500 after my 1000 Futura skidded down the road with my leg trapped under. Mercifully nothing broken but a damaged knee, 16 stitches, but the Scoot was the only bike I could ride for a while. Hasn't stopped me getting a couple more Italian crotch rockets since, and currently have 3 Aprilia and 2 Cagivas (always wanted an MV Augusta and at least the frames are such).despite various folk telling me I am too old for such indulgencies.
 
Anyway good luck and hope the Piaggio serves you as well as my one in a different party frock did.
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sutty86
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« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2016, 23:14:28 »

The Buzzetti one seen on Ebay a lot for the Piaggio/Gilera Leader 125/200cc motor unit. There is only the factory tool for the 400/500 motors which occasionally surfaces on Ebay. So the best alternative is an electric or air ratchet gun.
thank you ,
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sutty86
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« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2016, 16:37:33 »

Torque wrench came today,
Belt should be here tomorrow,
Tries pulling apart air box today to inspect the filter , so I'm missing most of the screws had two screws in and the two bigger screws(plastic handles on top)
But one of the screws is rounded off , not sure how I'm gonna get it out,any ideas, screw it out?

Also managed to eventually try to pull crank case apart , kissing also one bolt centre top , had to plug gas a few to loosen them as I had a screw driver adapter with socket adapter snap at first go, managed to find extension and adapter for smaller 8mm socket.
Yet to use torque wrench.

Am I right in thinking for the air box I need m3x20mm?
Anyone know what size bolt I need for crank case

Cheers
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sutty86
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« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2016, 17:39:25 »

Also gear oil black plastic cover is snapped off so all I have is a flush piece of plastic , any ideas again haha
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Dave Milnes
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« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2016, 19:37:56 »

Sounds like a typical neglected 125. Snapped or missing screws/bolts is quite normal when previous owners don't do maintenance. A lot of 125's are bought as 'temporary' or even cheap as chips run into the ground and spend zero on them expendable tools.
If they are looked after, maintained and have the usual problem prevention measures done, they are fine, but then you can't buy them for next to nothing. Cheap means that they need a lot of work as you are finding out. drill out and replace with new with coppaslip on the threads. No idea about 125 bolt sizes but often on the parts diagrams on such as Fowlers or Easyparts the clue is in the name.
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2016 Maxsym 600i Sport
Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019, Loch Doon 2020, Cumbria 2021.
sutty86
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« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2016, 08:00:14 »

To be fair Dave I didn't really pay anything for the x8, the guy totally legit though(I sound very dodgy now)
Well is there any secret to split the CVT case , got half of it off, keeps getting wedged over oil part.
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parnell
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« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2016, 06:57:15 »

Ohhhh I thought this was the Speedo cable


In that case what the hell is it haha


That's the hydraulic brake fluid cable
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Dave Milnes
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« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2016, 08:29:06 »

It does, doesn't it!
Is there a brake on both sides or just the one? Isn't the X8 same as X9 with two discs and linked rear?
X7 and Xevo are a single disc IIRC. Seen so few of them but I'm sure Solo's had two.
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2016 Maxsym 600i Sport
Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019, Loch Doon 2020, Cumbria 2021.
sutty86
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« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2016, 09:24:56 »

Guys I'm sure the cable which is hanging loose to the right is deffo the Speedo cable.

Managed to get cover off



Presume it's seem better days.

Need to replace washers


What do you think happened to washer.
Also need new rollers
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sutty86
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« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2016, 09:25:53 »

Power is gone after belt install.
Think I've not put belt on properly.
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Dave Milnes
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« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2016, 12:37:07 »

Have you used the right weight rollers (9g?) heavier ones kill acceleration.
Are those the washers that go on the clutch shaft?
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2016 Maxsym 600i Sport
Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019, Loch Doon 2020, Cumbria 2021.
sutty86
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« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2016, 16:22:15 »

Washers from variator shaft  two washers , none on the clutch assembly shaft.
I have not changed the rollers yet not got around to it.
Was going to see if it started stock
Before I throw my money on the bike.

Before I installed belt and removed transmission cover when you pulled the throttle it was revving great , no hiccuping or loss of power.
Since belt install it starts fine/idles nicely , clutch assembly spinning.
But when you blip the throttle bike trys to move to left on centre stand(centrifuge???)
And power dies goes just above idle then just does random stuff.
I sat on the bike after install and it wouldn't move fully throttle open it would jerk around a metre than stop.

Very strange
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Dave Milnes
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« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2016, 16:09:21 »

Without any belt fitted the throttle is a lot crisper and if the mixtures are way out a no load rev-up would still seem OK, but once the belt is fitted there is quite a drag and if the engine is way off tune and producing little power, it will now be obvious.
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2016 Maxsym 600i Sport
Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019, Loch Doon 2020, Cumbria 2021.
Mike H
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« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2016, 16:35:54 »

Sounds like something is binding - can you try turning belt / clutch and wheel by hand, to find out what's going on
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sutty86
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« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2016, 00:05:27 »

Bikes up and running finally , took it for a spin of the village somewhere I know im safe if anything happened.

Drove beautiful initially was jerky through some revving but after five minutes the scooter was like butter.
I have fitted new half pulley as cogs/spine were worn on the old one and out new 8g rollers in,.

One thing I did notice was the lights (all work) where flickering,dimming whilst I was riding I initially thought battery but battery checks are fine.
Any ideas?
Also got a malossi red filter here I have read about being a nice upgrade , can I just swap or will I have to tinker with upping jets etc
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sutty86
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« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2016, 12:54:06 »

Right sorted out the electric issue, after tightening and smootering the termianls with  vaseline.
Fitted a malossi red air filter but the bike kept bogging I think I may need to upgrade carb add some new jets, which at the minute is not the priority.

Stuck clean OEM filter back in, and now have to wait five minutes for bike to warm up, as it's not responsive totally actually quite dangerous, if I put throttle down it won't kick in to speed then suddenly start pulling away which I'm not okay with.
Brand new spark plug,new oil,fresh fuel with redex.

I want to clean the carb any tips , is it easy to do , can I mess it up?I think this may help as the bike was sat for at least two months.
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Dave Milnes
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« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2016, 14:34:24 »

Was going to suggest probably a poor battery connection. Without the resistance of the battery the alternator will pulse the power.
The problem with the Malossi is it has removed the air resistance of the filter cannister. That will have weakened the mixture a lot. It will now be way out across the range, but you will also have altered the flow rate across the rev range so just about every jet or adjustment will be wrong. A rolling road tune will be the only way to restore it to near normal. As the filter gets clogged, and it will from the oily fumes out of the crankcase breather, it will need constant cleaning. The original filter is designed to drain off the condensated oil fumes and not contaminate the filter element so they are not a problem. Malossi are race items not really intended for long term street use so although it may improve performance, it has brought more maintenance requirement.
It sounds like the set up was weak before if the standard filter doesn't run properly. Muffle the inlet of the filter cannister and see it that improves pickup, so you can get an idea if it is weak or actually rich. 125's invariably run poor when cold and hesitate, they nearly all are tuned too weak probably to meet emissions regs from an old engine design.
They also run far better with the valve clearances a few thou wider than book figures for some reason. Tight clearances run really poorly.
The air filter should have no effect on warm up time unless the Malossi was getting air from close to the exhaust system but only when stationary idling would it really make a difference.
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2016 Maxsym 600i Sport
Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019, Loch Doon 2020, Cumbria 2021.
sutty86
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« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2016, 18:02:24 »

Was going to suggest probably a poor battery connection. Without the resistance of the battery the alternator will pulse the power.
The problem with the Malossi is it has removed the air resistance of the filter cannister. That will have weakened the mixture a lot. It will now be way out across the range, but you will also have altered the flow rate across the rev range so just about every jet or adjustment will be wrong. A rolling road tune will be the only way to restore it to near normal. As the filter gets clogged, and it will from the oily fumes out of the crankcase breather, it will need constant cleaning. The original filter is designed to drain off the condensated oil fumes and not contaminate the filter element so they are not a problem. Malossi are race items not really intended for long term street use so although it may improve performance, it has brought more maintenance requirement.
It sounds like the set up was weak before if the standard filter doesn't run properly. Muffle the inlet of the filter cannister and see it that improves pickup, so you can get an idea if it is weak or actually rich. 125's invariably run poor when cold and hesitate, they nearly all are tuned too weak probably to meet emissions regs from an old engine design.
They also run far better with the valve clearances a few thou wider than book figures for some reason. Tight clearances run really poorly.
The air filter should have no effect on warm up time unless the Malossi was getting air from close to the exhaust system but only when stationary idling would it really make a difference.

Thanks one again for the informative post Dave.
Sorry my have mistaken the bike original had stock filter, I replaced with malossi only for ten mins as it was constantly bogging.
Stock filter is back in , I have put in a brand new cr8eix in , previously they was a cr9eix in , that shouldn't affect anything.

Going for a ride in an hour just to get my bearings on it before I do the commute to work tomorrow, (rush hour)
I can't complain really I paid nothing for it and now have it 95percent , I've learnt lots from the forum and done the work myself ,
I should just stop comparing it to my old fuel injected 125s
I really miss my Derbi terra
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sutty86
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« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2016, 20:38:01 »

Sorted it , whilst I was checking the air box (I need a new one) I was going to go around the edges with gorilla tape I noticed where the battered screws didn't sit flush and basically there was a slight opening.
Just been out rode amazing very happy
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