X10 500 Brake pads

[Martin H]

Hi All,

Rear pads need doing and there seems to be a huge choice of different types out there.

Any recommendations for something that will last longer than the stock ones?

Also, I keep having to have the parking brake adjusted - anyone else have this problem?

[roadster]

I would be inclined to stick to the original pads, or at least an organic type on the rear, because of the linked brakes. Fitting something different could result in the front/rear balance shifting to the front on cold application and I wouldn't want that. Of course you could try changing both front right and rear to the same grade in which case EBC would be my choice.

I have given up on the parking brake because as you say it needed all too frequent ( and precise ) adjustment to work on significant gradients. I came to the conclusion that this must mean there is some wear in normal running and as that means unnecessary friction I decided to let it stay slack.

Although my rear pads are still OK I did try to get them out for a clean up when I changed the rear tyre. But I just couldn't move those nasty pins with internal hex. The trouble is that if you hammer in a tight allen key it expands the threaded portion and makes it even tighter. In the end I just did an external clean up but when the pads need changing I'll make sure I buy new pins as well so that I can cut the old ones if necessary. The fronts have the same design but luckily I had those out while they were nearly new and reassembled with grease rather than the factory Loctite.

[Mike H]

#1. I used EBC ones from Wemoto:

http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/piaggio/x10_350/13/brake_pads_rear_per_caliper_and_shoes/#brake_pads_rear_per_caliper_and_shoes
[Pads Rear EBC Standard (GG Type)]

Or rather I did for the front... (rears had already been renewed before me)


#2. I had to take my parking caliper off and completely strip it cos it was basically siezing up. It works by having a rotating worm screw gadget in the centre. Usual story, not enough grease. A thorough clean-up and regrease and it was brilliant after that, probably better than new! Had also bought new pads but the originals were exact same thickness, so not a pad wear problem. However  my parking brake was completely slackened off when I got the bike but I assumed the old guy who had it before me did that on purpose (or someone did it for  him) so he could push it around but leaving the sidestand down in case of falling over. (?)

For adjustment I deployed the stand down, then wound up the adjuster nut until the rear wheel was as 'solid' as I wanted it. But then make sure it releases when retracted obviously. Can't report on the longevity of this adjustment as bike was crashed shortly after.

HTH

[Mike H]

PS: while you're diving into brake calipers, I'll assume you know to clean them out with brake cleaner aerosol etc.,  and also remove the 'anti-rattle' spring clip thingy to clean it properly. But also (either now or at some point in the not too distant future) get some Brembo caliper grease (suitable for use with brake seals) and smear it around ALL of the caliper pistons, front and rear.

How did I come to do this? Went to rotate the front wheel one day merely to get access to the tyre valve, it was solid! Couldn't turn it! Jacked it up off the floor, still solid! Caliper pistons stuck on!!

[Martin H]

Thanks chaps

[spannerman]

I've just copper slipped the pad pins on Beverly. As said earlier the pins are glued in by the factory with that blue shite. On my Deauville fitted with Nissin rear caliper, I needed to buy a 5mm long reach alan socket and that needed slimming down to fit inside the caliper hole. The standard hex alan keys have too much flex in them to undo the pins, so get armed with a socket attachment.
 You can just about remove the rear pins on a Beverly without removing anything. Good preventative maintenance.

[Expat47]

For adjustment I deployed the stand down, then wound up the adjuster nut until the rear wheel was as 'solid' as I wanted it. But then make sure it releases when retracted obviously. Can't report on the longevity of this adjustment as bike was crashed shortly after.

Hay Mike,

  My parking break is out of adjustment. Where's that "adjuster nut" you mentioned?

[Mike H]

On the outside of the parking caliper, hexagon locknut (10mm spanner[?]) and inside of that a shaft with two flats on it. I use a self adjusting spanner on that; unlock nut, turn shaft clockwise to tighten the brake. I do it on mainstand AND sidestand down, do it up until wheel is locked. Can be done without taking silencer off, just. Be aware tho the parking caliper can seize up with crud and if so need dismantling cleaning and regreasing.

HTH

[roadster]

A bit more detail might be helpful on parking brake adjustment. First get the cable adjustment correct. The lever should be just against its bottom stop when the prop stand is up. Adjust the cable so that as soon as the prop stand starts to move out the lever also starts to move upwards. If it is impossible to fully deploy the prop stand because of too much resistance the cable is too tight. After this if the brake is not fully locked when the prop stand is down then adjust by screwing in the spindle. I would do that with the stand up by screwing in the actuating spindle until the brake is just binding then slackening until it is free. Final testing, after tightening the locknut, by moving the stand through a few cycles then checking again for binding.

[Expat47]

Thanks guys. I "found" the little sucker and there's more to it than my knees are going to put up with.

As soon as I find my mechanic (retired) I'll run out to his place and give him hell for not noticing the needed adjustment when he serviced the scoot last month. 

That should keep me from having to pay him any more money or buying more beer for the bull session afterwords. 

[Mike H]

Sorry my manual says nothing about the cable. Only how to take it off and put it back on, and "after adjustment, tighten the nut indicated to the prescribed torque". But no mention of the adjustment!

[Expat47]

I watched a think on YouTube and it looks pretty much like what I had on my Kawasaki. It's looks to be a pretty self evident procedure just longer, more time consuming than my knees are going to enjoy.

[Mike H]

Assuming cable is OK (?) all I've done (so far) is do up the screw to lock wheel as much as I want, then retract sidestand and make sure pads not binding on the disc, of course.


Here's a couple of photos from when I dismantled my caliper for cleaning and regreasing:







It was the piston bit in the middle that was seizing up, if memory is correct.

[chippyzip]

Assuming cable is OK (?) all I've done (so far) is do up the screw to lock wheel as much as I want, then retract sidestand and make sure pads not binding on the disc, of course.


Here's a couple of photos from when I dismantled my caliper for cleaning and regreasing:







It was the piston bit in the middle that was seizing up, if memory is correct.

Been trying for ages to remove one of the Hex bolts - bloody thing! I've tried an oversized hex but the bloody thing has rounded off, anyone with a tips??



Graham

[Mike H]

Where is the thread on those? Can't see in photo and can't remember.

If on the shaft then only option I can think of is drill out the head.

[chippyzip]

its internal

Graham 

[roadster]

Those pad retaining pins are a nightmare and I have had to drill out the heads on the main rear calliper then run a tap through them after hacking out the old pins. Its a horrible design because the hex size, being internal, is too small in relation to the thread size and torque requirement. Its almost a self jamming geometry because when the hex key is twisted it naturally expands the head and jams it even more. With the pistons and seals out you could use heat and this would work on the parking calliper without any need to replace and bleed fluid. So with all seals and grommets removed I would try getting the offending bit as hot as possible before resorting to the drill.

[chippyzip]

Would a blowtorch be hot enough? I've read that you can use methylene chloride to "dissolve" loctite blue http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/t_lkr_blue/directions/Loctite-Threadlocker-Blue-242.htm
But, I've got a feeling that that stuff, also used as metal paintstripper has been banned for sale :-(
I've already ordered 4 spare brake pins - I gotta feeling I'm going to use them!

Graham 

[roadster]

Would a blowtorch be hot enough? I've read that you can use methylene chloride to "dissolve" loctite blue http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/t_lkr_blue/directions/Loctite-Threadlocker-Blue-242.htm
But, I've got a feeling that that stuff, also used as metal paintstripper has been banned for sale :-(
I've already ordered 4 spare brake pins - I gotta feeling I'm going to use them!

Graham 

Yes a blow torch is fine if you are patient. You could also put the whole thing in an oven or on an electric hob. The alloy will expand more than the steel pin which will help free it up. Is there any chance of grabbing pin with mole grips or pliers inside the calliper? That might give you a better chance of turning it.

[chippyzip]

I watched a think on YouTube and it looks pretty much like what I had on my Kawasaki. It's looks to be a pretty self evident procedure just longer, more time consuming than my knees are going to enjoy.

Have you got the link on YouTube??
Graham

[chippyzip]

Yes a blow torch is fine if you are patient. You could also put the whole thing in an oven or on an electric hob. The alloy will expand more than the steel pin which will help free it up. Is there any chance of grabbing pin with mole grips or pliers inside the calliper? That might give you a better chance of turning it.

Yeah, tried that, but the gap was too small between the pads. I've bought a heat gun - I'm going to try that, and see if it'll get the bugger off!

Graham

[chippyzip]

Got the bloody thing out, after a lot of swearing and odd looks from the folks walking past the garage! Used a blow torch (after making sure the rubber parts are well out of the way and taken off) Then I hammered an old Tesco's screwdriver down into the pin and gave it a good twist and the bloody thing turned!!

I've four spare pins knocking about, used two, and make sure they had a good covering of copper ease- hopefully, it'll help next time!

Graham 

[Expat47]

 

Expanding the English lexicon is an important and necessary part of DIY projects.

[Mike H]

Excellent! Well done.

Yet another triumph for hammer screwdriver and brute force. 

The old ways can still work.