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Author Topic: Barrel & Piston Replacement on X8 125  (Read 9617 times)
piaggiorider
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2007 X8 125


« on: January 08, 2013, 14:13:24 »

As topic says.
Im about to replace the top end with a genuine 200cc brand new Barrel & Piston.I know I could go for the Malossi option but dont want to as the 200cc conversion is the most economic way of increasing the power to around 20 BHP.I could even buy a bigger machine,but I dont want to as I love me X8...and I like to Tinker!!
Question is,do I have to take the engine unit out of the frame or can it be done in situ?
If anyone has removed the barrel,head,piston before then any tips would be most appreciated

Thanks very much....
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Shaun..

Past Scooters-Vespa 90,P200E,P125X,Rally 200,150 Super.
Lambretta Li 150x2,Sx 200,Li 125.
LML 150 5 port.
alangale
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2013, 15:33:30 »

Quote from Haynes Manual : Operations possible with the engine in the frame. All components and assemblies with the exception of the crankshaft/connecting rod assembly can be worked on without having to remove the engine/transmission unit from the frame. However, access is extremely limited and if a number of areas require attention at the same time, removal of the engine is recommended, as it is easy to do so. End Quote
Let me know how you get on. Carb settings, timing etc. I'm contemplating doing similar to an MP3 (Same engine)
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 15:43:49 by alangale » Logged

2x Piaggio X9 Evo 125 Projects, Avatar, 07 MP3 200 winter 12/13 completed project.
julian
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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2013, 22:11:31 »

From memory of Solo's experience you need to replace the transmission with components from a 200 if you don't want to wreck the engine. The gearing is designed for 125, if you put the extra power and torque through there it won't be operating at the right revs for the the road speed meaning you won't get the performance you predict, and the engine will blow.
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jjprivate
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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2013, 12:43:38 »

From memory of Solo's experience you need to replace the transmission with components from a 200 if you don't want to wreck the engine. The gearing is designed for 125, if you put the extra power and torque through there it won't be operating at the right revs for the the road speed meaning you won't get the performance you predict, and the engine will blow.

You are wrong, I own the engine workshop manuals for 125 - 200 in german and it says the transmission is exactly the same. Only the rollers should be adapted to the higher power output
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piaggiorider
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2007 X8 125


« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2013, 16:40:44 »

Thanks for your comments Fellas.
JJ is right about the gearing.Only the roller weights are different.
From my research,I have found out that the 125 LC LEADER is basically a De-rated 200cc unit for the Learner (L Plate) market to compete with the opposition.
Other differences is the Carb Jetting & Ignition Timing which I will alter once the 200 Top End is fitted.

Also,has Solo done this conversion?....Any linkee's
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Shaun..

Past Scooters-Vespa 90,P200E,P125X,Rally 200,150 Super.
Lambretta Li 150x2,Sx 200,Li 125.
LML 150 5 port.
julian
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« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2013, 21:09:03 »

He didn't post about it here, but elsewhere.
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Dave Milnes
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Fylde Coast


« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2013, 23:34:00 »

I suspect there is a subtle difference between a Malossi/Polini 200cc 'upgrade' kit for a UK 125 Leader, and the genuine 200cc European 'Amalfi' motor. As JJ says, the 200cc is the native version and is the normal factory reliability, but somehow when a UK bike is upsized with a 'performance' kit, all longevity seems to be lost. The problem isn't with the transmission, but with the piston/crank. I suspect there is something in the clearances, tolerances or the conrod small end journal that is different on a 125 than the larger leader/amalfi motors. Or the spannering ability of the kids that usually fit them that is lacking and correct mixture settings.
Possibly the best way of upgrading a 125cc X9 is to source a 180 or 200cc motor in it's original factory state.
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2016 Maxsym 600i Sport
Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019, Loch Doon 2020, Cumbria 2021.
julian
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2013, 07:00:48 »

I remember Solo did post about revs and loss of performance which is why I recalled it as as transmission problem but roller weights would account for that.
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alangale
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« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2013, 16:21:52 »

Looking into the possibilities of converting my MP3 125 to 200cc, I delved a little deeper and it appears that whilst the barrel and piston will fit no problem, there are subtle differences. The ignition timing on the 125 is set at 31 to 33 degrees BTDC and the 200 at 33 to 35 degrees BTDC and to absorb the extra power there is a roller added to the transmission to stop the belt flexing too much. So rather than creating problems for myself, when they have already been resolved, I looked for a 200 motor I could slot in and found a Vespa GT200 motor complete, for less than a Malossi big bore kit. It is different, in the fact that, the center stands will need transferring and the rear disc is on the inside, Ala X9 but the splines and drive shaft are the same for all, so the X8/ MP3 wheel with the disc outside, will fit. The transmission cover has the air duct facing upward, so I'll use the one from the X8/MP3 to connect the airbox and the shocks are mounted in a different place, but as the crankcases are all the same, there is provision to mount the X8/MP3 shocks correctly. As the pulse generator/ pickup is already set up for a 200 it should be just plug and play and have no effect on the rest of the electrics as the ECU only controls the advance and retard, not when it happens, which is controlled by the pulse generator/ pickup. I'll let you know how I get on, in around a months time.
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2x Piaggio X9 Evo 125 Projects, Avatar, 07 MP3 200 winter 12/13 completed project.
Dave Milnes
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Fylde Coast


« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2013, 17:02:28 »

Is the MP3 the same carb or has that been upsized too on the Vespa?
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2016 Maxsym 600i Sport
Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019, Loch Doon 2020, Cumbria 2021.
alangale
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« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2013, 12:11:55 »

Is the MP3 the same carb or has that been upsized too on the Vespa?

Fortunately, I took that into account when buying the GT200 engine and got the carb as well. The carb is by a different manufacturer and the main jet is a different size to the 125 other than that, they appear to be the same.

I'd also like to point out that the MP3 and GT200 use a 12" rear wheel as opposed to a 14" on the X9's, which means the gearing is the same. With X9's you would most probably have to swap the gears from the 125 to the 200 gearbox.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 12:25:46 by alangale » Logged

2x Piaggio X9 Evo 125 Projects, Avatar, 07 MP3 200 winter 12/13 completed project.
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