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Author Topic: Who knows about CG eletrics ?  (Read 16799 times)
X9-125-Evo
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« on: July 10, 2010, 16:34:44 »

Hello.

For last week i have been having problems with bulbs Blowing  2 indicators, main back light, 2x headlight bulbs blown and MELTED spedo light bulb  and flickering main headlights.

Picture of bike has it is, totally striped down trying to find Evey wire end to maybe find a bad earth?



so far bulbs have blown, and fuse next to battery blown, i replace the fuse, and a new battery fully charge, all going well, but flickering main lights, and indicators have mind of there own some times working something not, some time when turned on they just say lit and don't flash but start flashing when reved up.

Anyone know whats wrong with it ?

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julian
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2010, 17:19:20 »

Regulator I would guess.
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x9500 steve
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2010, 18:01:29 »

Its a  HONDA so I would agree regulator 90% of things that go wrong on a honda its usually that and its quite often goosed the battery before you notice
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x7 125(for pottering about on)
X9-125-Evo
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2010, 18:03:31 »

had a look at the while the tank was off? there cheap to buy, but how can i test it ? the bike is supplying 14vs to the battery and is charging while riding. The Regulator as i found was in a protected rubber cover, and for 20yrs old was clean with no rust or dirt!  looked brand new.

Is there away to test, rather then say buy one, pop it on and find its not the Regulator ?

Quote
Its a  HONDA so I would agree regulator 90% of things that go wrong on a honda its usually that and its quite often goosed the battery before you notice

Thinking about it the battery was fine weeks ago then started discharging.
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X9-125-Evo
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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2010, 18:07:58 »

PS looked on ebay and foud a few, but diffrent years of Cg, must my Regulator that i buy be for a 1989 BRJ model ?
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x9500 steve
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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2010, 18:10:32 »

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/pdfs/Troubleshooting-3P-PMG-&-RR.pdf try this to try and sort out problem
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x7 125(for pottering about on)
X9-125-Evo
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2010, 18:31:19 »

thanks ill try it and iv book marked that page
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julian
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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2010, 21:38:18 »

Do the volts stop at 14v or do they continue to climb as the revs are increased? If the volts stop rising at 14 it is probably not the regulator.
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X9-125-Evo
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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2010, 07:33:28 »

Hi

When i had the Volt meter on it, when revved the volts increased, ill have another go later and post results, iam sure they stooped at 13.5v. ill check later
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dididowell
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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2010, 11:44:40 »

As I recall you were talking of doing some sort of mod to the headlight, And were warned against it. Did you do your mod, as this could well be the result you were warned of.
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X9-125-Evo
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« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2010, 08:34:32 »

no i didn't  do any mods to the bike as i wanted it to stay bog standed, i have only replaced the head light with a holegen equivalent of the current old bulb that is in the old bulb was a 35w old globe type bulb now have 35 halogen bulb, Same wattage, don't think that could done anything ?
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Dave Milnes
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« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2010, 09:06:43 »

Just fit a new regulator.
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Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019, Loch Doon 2020.
X9-125-Evo
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« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2010, 11:48:04 »

I have got it on order cost ........      8.00     cheap! god the bike is easy to Fix and easy to work on,  so Far i have learned to strip it down, do valves, check pistons rings ( that was hard ) reassemble the whole engine even harder for a first timer, after dismal to find the pistons rings are necked, red drum brakes replacing, chain sprockets.

If i i wanted to do the valves on the x9 i would have taken me hrs, as you have all the plastic the only down side to a scooter like the x9 been enclosed unlike the CG.

thinking of keeping this along side my next bike, you know the feeling when u maintain and look after a bike and hard work on it you don't wan get rid of it .

The things i did  on the X9 like -Brakes - valves- belt - oil -  toke ages compered to the CG

They should make a scooter where the engine is very accessible to work on ? think they will one day ?
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julian
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« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2010, 12:12:58 »

I think everything is very accessable on the old skool scooters. The panels unclip from the side of the rear wheel and you can get to everything. Being two stroke also helped ot keep things simple.
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Big Ears
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« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2010, 12:29:21 »

Quite so.



 But the whole point of the original scooter concept was that it could be ridden wearing fancy day clothes, without getting covered in oil and muck.
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X9-125-Evo
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« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2010, 10:47:56 »

HELLO

I have just fitted the regulator i ordered, turned on bike, and lights still flicker, indicators been AWOL. plugged the wires from the CG ( wires that plug into the battery ) into my volt meter, and revved it, volts it reads is 4.4v - 5.0v.

So the regulator hasn't solved the problem, iam baffled as to whats next to check ?
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Dave Milnes
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« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2010, 11:40:58 »

In that case the stator that sends the charge to the regulator is not doing so.
Check the connectors where the stator output wiring plugs into the loom, or the regulator input.

When you check the voltage, you do it across the battery terminals with everything connected up normally and the engine running.

Check for any master fuses on the starter relay (like the X9 has) or on any thinner wires going to the battery terminals.

What is the voltage measured across the disconnected battery. If the old regulator was allowing excess voltage, enough to blow bulbs, it could well have fried the battery cells too. The new regulator won't work as it cannot properly sense the battery load if it has dead cells. Can you borrow a known good battery?
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2016 Maxsym 600i Sport
Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019, Loch Doon 2020.
X9-125-Evo
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« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2010, 12:00:10 »

Hi Dave.

I have 3 battery and tried with them all.

ill see if i can check the stator, but iam due to be delivered a Honda CG engine tomorrow Off my mate who giving me it free .


These are my test results as of today done at 12:30 :

Bike off, CG Battery reads                                        13.30v
Bike ruining, CG battery reads                                   14.60v

CG Wires from loom plugged into volt meter rather then Battery, Idle speed no revs :    8.56v

indicators are annoying, once side flashes, but becomes awol when reved, other side just lit and no flash

Quote
starter relay
   does this have one, been kick start only.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 12:52:12 by CG125BRJ » Logged
Dave Milnes
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« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2010, 13:24:15 »

Battery sound OK then as does the regulator.
What about all the earths particularly the main battery -ve lead?
Try measuring the voltage at the headlight or a sidelight and if less than 13V measure between the +ve wire at the light and the -ve battery terminal. If that is OK then the problem is earthing somewhere. Hence the poor flasher, as that works on resistance to ground.
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2016 Maxsym 600i Sport
Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019, Loch Doon 2020.
X9-125-Evo
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« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2010, 15:46:41 »

Just taken your advice and tested the side light ( 1 side light bulb 5w ) reading at idle is : 0.74v revved  Reads: 1.60v How i did it ( so you know if i did it correctly )  2 wires on the side light bulb + an - connected + to the + on the volt meter and - to the - on the volt meter.

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« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2010, 16:22:15 »

OK so now test between the +ve on the bulb holder and the -ve battery terminal. If you now get 12V-ish, then you have a serious failure of the -ve battery grounding to the frame/engine.
You could do a resistance test (ohms) between the -ve wire at the bulb holder and the -ve battery terminal. It should be virtually zero.
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2016 Maxsym 600i Sport
Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019, Loch Doon 2020.
X9-125-Evo
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« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2010, 17:17:24 »

OK i'am back just did that test as you said    0.70v    +ve on the bulb holder and the -ve battery terminal
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Dave Milnes
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« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2010, 17:45:40 »

You did test it with the lights turned on?
If not try again. If the voltage reads 12V or more the fault is a dud ground from the battery -ve.
If it's still low (try a few +ve connections) and the battery -ve the same as between any two wires on a bulb holder it would seem the fault is not with 'ground' but with the +ve supply.
Where does the +ve power tap off the battery? If there is no starter solenoid being a kick start, there must be a point where all the fuses get their +ve feed from. Does the battery +ve lead go to any sort of terminal block or fuse block? Check the voltage there, and if it's dropped, there must be a break in the main battery lead.
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2016 Maxsym 600i Sport
Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019, Loch Doon 2020.
X9-125-Evo
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« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2010, 18:12:43 »

The + lead from battery goes throw a fuse 10amp ( that's not blown  ) then from there heads into the loom and leads up to pass under the tank and to the dash and lights. i can see no splits or tears along the loom, and its never been touched and its warped black thick tape.

yes when i did the test on the side lights i had all the lights on. I tried it with my brand new battery on and the old one, even fitted My Piaggio x9 12v 14hr battery to it. still no change

Iam totally at lost ends with this.

Volts have same reading on side lights and main lights .

There is an earth lead that comes out of the loom near the battery and is bolted to the frame, toke that off cleaned - but nothing.
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« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2010, 18:39:19 »

Have you measured the voltage from the +ve terminal of the battery to various points on the frame (with the battery connected as normal)?

You should get the same reading as going across the battery. But I'm thinking that you have a high impedance somewhere on the -ve side of the battery. In other words a duff earth, caused by corrosion on a connection, or a rotted lead.

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« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2010, 18:40:13 »

Change the 10A fuse anyway, it may look OK but could have a hairline crack in the fusable link.
I can't think what else to suggest. You could try running a new wire from the battery +ve to somewhere up front that's normally always live just to eliminate any breaks in the main loom. I'd guess it goes to the ignition switch, and from there to the various circuits....have you checked the voltage at the feed IN to the switch and OUT of the switch? could be the ignition switch terminals burned?
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2016 Maxsym 600i Sport
Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019, Loch Doon 2020.
X9-125-Evo
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« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2010, 18:49:30 »

way ahead of you on on the fuse, tryed 10amp 14apm and 20amp, no difference  Dam rain iam suck in now. so no more test.
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X9-125-Evo
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« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2010, 19:57:42 »

My last resort, ill threaten my CG  with a flying lesson! iv been advised by my dad to bin it. as one day on way to work ( at mo iam signed off work due to stress related problems and Cg doesn't help me ) the Cg mite clong out when i relay need it for work. or mite die on my test when a slot become free. So sell and buy another CG or small 125 or buy Piaggio x9 125 ( not like sh**y one i had last time with duff sator generator and transmission  and looks like its been stode in a river with all the rusty bolts )
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« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2010, 20:18:21 »

Well if you do, look at as many as you can, don't buy the first you see. Better missing a sale than buying a dog!
You'd probably be better sticking with the geared option now you've almost completed the test modules.
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2016 Maxsym 600i Sport
Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019, Loch Doon 2020.
X9-125-Evo
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« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2010, 21:03:28 »

almost completed ? still got a pass MOD 1 yet even if i take my test on an Auto and want manual later in life, i found out i wont need to retake my CBT or theory, my Full auto license will allow me to just retake the test but manual. with nothing els needed as i believe.

Wont i miss about a X9. well it makes the Cg look stone age. Life with out a fuel gauge ( sounds stupid i know ) but i totally miss it. I miss the relax ride of auto, i miss been able to put my feet up on the long footbords, I miss the road presence, the CG doesn't have. I defently miss the X9 lights, you don't know how good the X9 lights are until you ride a 80s CG, even the X9 35w stand factory fitted bulbs are better than the 25w or 35w Cg globe bulb. the X9 gives a spreed across the lane of light,  the Cg justs give you a spot light kinda view.

I miss the X9s 75mph speed where the Cg struggles to get 60mph. you don't apriciate the X9 till you ride something like a CG
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julian
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« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2010, 21:16:27 »

There are loads of CGs out there so as Dave says, take a look at a few. The module 1 is meant to much, much harder on an auto.
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« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2010, 22:17:50 »

Wont i miss about a X9. well it makes the Cg look stone age. Life with out a fuel gauge ( sounds stupid i know ) but i totally miss it. I miss the relax ride of auto, i miss been able to put my feet up on the long footbords, I miss the road presence, the CG doesn't have. I defently miss the X9 lights, you don't know how good the X9 lights are until you ride a 80s CG, even the X9 35w stand factory fitted bulbs are better than the 25w or 35w Cg globe bulb. the X9 gives a spreed across the lane of light,  the Cg justs give you a spot light kinda view. I miss the X9s 75mph speed where the Cg struggles to get 60mph. you don't apriciate the X9 till you ride something like a CG

Tried to explain the same thing to some guys on my local forum - forget about engine (there are smoother and stronger), but lights, brakes, road presence, luggage space, seat and seating position, board computer, weather protection... great, great and great. And not expensive also... Amazing bike.
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X9-125-Evo
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« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2010, 00:11:32 »

Why is it a lot harder on an auto ?
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julian
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« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2010, 05:47:05 »

Why is it a lot harder on an auto ?

You can't keep the gearing low enough to go fast enough for the speed trap part of the test.
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X9-125-Evo
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« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2010, 10:02:44 »

oh keep cg then.   iam going to try the electrics again today, try find a slit. knowing my luck rain just as the bike completely striped
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« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2015, 10:10:56 »

From memory the CG has a direct lighting system, on a lot of light weight bikes there was a resistor that was designed to take the excess power when the lights were not in use and if an headlight blew, that was usually mounted near the headstock and will have a single wire going to it.
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dididowell
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« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2015, 12:48:55 »

Do please try to keep up. The post you have just replied to is FIVE years old. Even Solo won't be able to remember having the bike.
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« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2015, 18:08:10 »

Useful to know about the resistor in case the same thing ever comes up again. It never was solved originally.
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2016 Maxsym 600i Sport
Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019, Loch Doon 2020.
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« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2015, 21:08:43 »

Yeah very interesting to know. Thanks for posting.
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