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Author Topic: LED indicator bulbs - WAS "Clear rear indicator lenses for X8/Xevo??"  (Read 24898 times)
loonymoon
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« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2010, 07:21:18 »

I did think of that Alan, but the indicator is a sealed unit (I can't remove the lens from the back) so any LED strips have to go outside somewhere. I'm not too keen on sticking them outside as they'd look a bit odd!
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creamcrackered
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« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2010, 08:16:26 »

appreciated you can't get inside, from what i could see it's not viable to drill through the 'cup' from the rear to poke some addional LEDS into it.

so i was just suggesting a more radical alternative approach to beefing up what is the stock illumination by adding lights to overcome the visibility problem in an easier way, you don't have a top box fitted in the photo or you could add lights to that area.

the 15 LED strips for instance come housed in a very flexible waterproof polythene type material, looks like dried clear bath sealant and appears clear when not lit, having a flat back makes them ideal for using with some thin double sided tape as a fixture.

it's one way i was considering for my Swing, using the neon blue versions is to buy some chrome 'C' or 'U' shaped car body trim. if you can imagine i'm going to use the chrome strip simply as a pretty holder, it will be actually be mounted upside down exposing the 'U', then i'm slotting the LED strip into that, having 1st attached the chrome stripe (via some small bolts or nylon tree's), by drilling through the chrome strip and the plastics. these fixings will be hidden from view by the LED strip being inserted, and in turn it is held by the pressure so still accessible.

for my Sinclair C5 i have bought a pair of custom indicators that have a curved angled back, could be ideal to mount near the corner of the plastics on you scooter so there ar many options available and imo with a bit of time, care are and planning a really functional and cool minor customised effect could then be had.

regs
Alan
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loonymoon
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« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2010, 08:34:09 »

appreciated you can't get inside, from what i could see it's not viable to drill through the 'cup' from the rear to poke some addional LEDS into it.

Maybe though there doesn't look to be huge amounts of space in there and the two existing bulbholders are stepped so the back of the indicator housing isn't flat which might make getting any LED strip in a bit more difficult.

I'll see what replacing the original bulbs looks like before I decide if it needs anything else. Having a top box would make life easier for this sort of thing. I was thinking of fitting a second brake light strip to the X8 when I had it as I nearly had 2 people crash into the back of me, but there's not an easy place to fit them without cutting plastics etc which I'm reluctant todo.

I wasn't intending to get a top box as I had one on the X8 and I very rarely used it, but did feel that it effected the handling somewhat and adds a lot of extra weight, plus it's an expensive item to buy if I only use it  twice a year like I did the one on the X8.
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creamcrackered
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« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2010, 10:06:19 »

know totally what you mean about cutting any plastics, when working as a trainee alarm engineer i had the philosophy drummed (aka beaten) into me 'think twice before you dice' and twice again.

no client wants hole in their walls they don't need, even less want you to drill through a pipe, electrics or knock a clock of the wall. so i took nearly 3 hours over mounting my top box onto the virgin 'wing', 2 1/2 of that was spent measuring and chin scratching for a less impacting option - and then working up the courage to drill .

bit the bullet as i need the box to carry kit for servicing work and small installations, so it tends to stay on. and tbh, imho to me scoots simply seem to look naked without one.

from looking back at you pictures, if it were me i'd likely mount a high viz led brake light strip or 1/2 oval shaped lamp just under and along that top lip 'wing' at the back. you can see one before you buy them, many ready housed in most auto accessory shops or search on ebay for them.

regs
alan
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loonymoon
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« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2010, 10:17:11 »

Quote from: creamcrackered
from looking back at you pictures, if it were me i'd likely mount a high viz led brake light strip or 1/2 oval shaped lamp just under and along that top lip 'wing' at the back. you can see one before you buy them, many ready housed in most auto accessory shops or search on ebay for them.

regs
alan

Yes that is the obvious place to fit one - can you get ones that stick on? It' still require drilling a hole for the electrical connection but it may be worth it. I think you can get a rubber grommet to waterproof the hole the wires go through, can't you? Routing it so it doesn't interfere with the hinge for the boot lid would be a bit of a challenge but I'm sure surmountable to anyone with a bit of electrical savvy who's used to fitting these things. I however am not. My other half is quite good with electronics etc but I think he'd be reluctant to start drilling holes etc.
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creamcrackered
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« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2010, 10:55:15 »

you can buy various types of grommet and also sizes, from simple 'o' ring type. blind to ones and others with a 'tail' lead strain reliefs (like on electric irons) from Maplins etc

tbh as to which light to use, do the searches on Ebay for idea's, your taste's may differ to mine (or my lack of it more like ).

the wires can be sheathed in some plastic/rubber tubing or better split composite hose, it is used in cars. again sold in accessory shops to have a look at it. likely you will need a hole for the wires, the grommets 1st job is really to stop any chaffing, plastic bodywork won't rust but you need to think about water ingress to whatever is below it.

cable ties to bind wires to the frame etc. are very useful to control wires against interfering with any other facilities on the bike like the hing, forward planning and patience is of vital value for top results in any job, and while priceless, it can't be bought or read up on.

regs
Alan
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creamcrackered
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« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2010, 10:58:53 »

just an idean of my tast's -:

http://stores.customizedchoppers.com/Items/WW19233?&caSKU=WW19233&caTitle=REPLICA%20MILLER%20%27STOP%27%20REAR%20TAIL%20LIGHT%20CLASSIC%20CUSTOM%20LIGHTING

regs
alan
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loonymoon
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« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2010, 18:08:39 »

New LED indicator W5W's turned up and they're fitted.

Briefly- didn't need the ballast resistors as the indicators behaved perfectly normally.

The angle that you put these LED tower bulbs in makes a big difference to how much reflection you see off the reflectors. I played with it for a while until I was happy with the amount of diffusion of the light by the reflectors. From the directly at the sides you can't see reflections off the reflectors as I'd angled them to be more visible from behind and slightly to either side but you can still see the light from the individual diodes which is still OK.

Much happier with it now, though it was tried in the shade it'll be interesting to see how much difference it makes in bright light. Certainly the LED's are much more noticible under those conditions. Pics and vid to follow.
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Dave Milnes
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« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2010, 20:51:33 »

No resistors?
I wonder if that is because there are 2 LEDS and still a normal bulb in the front. Or the relay is already LED compliant.
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loonymoon
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« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2010, 22:24:06 »

Don't know but it seems fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LE-NWkGZC8
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jimc
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« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2010, 23:14:07 »

If it's an external indicator relay like the Mp3s and fuoco - make sure the connector is well filled with dielectric (e.g. silcone) grease.  Or else you will have this trouble:
http://www.x9gallery.co.uk/home/thumbnails.php?album=32
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Jim Crowther
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« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2010, 09:56:09 »

Jim, what grease do you use, my 2 tubes I was given have just about been used up and I can't find anything similar in the shops and am reluctant to order on-line before being able to read the 'small print' about electrical properties?
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« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2010, 12:25:52 »

Maplins sell it: http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=029006&TabID=1&QV=Y

Quote
Product Features

Lubricates, waterproofs, insulates and preserves electrical and electronic equipment
High surface resistivity
Ideal for switch contacts, ignition systems and EHT connections
Operational from -5 C to +200 C
Available in 200ml (RE81C) aerosol and 50g tube (RE90X)
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Jim Crowther
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« Reply #38 on: April 17, 2010, 17:00:16 »

Cheers, CPC seem to have something comparable too and it's just up the road from work.
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loonymoon
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« Reply #39 on: April 17, 2010, 18:13:07 »

When I rode to the bikesafe day my indicators were flashing fast! So I had to quickly change the bulbs back to the standard ones while I was there.
But here's the weird thing, they='re still flashing fast on single side indicator but flashing the correct speed when on Hazards (I think this was happening the whole time but I tested them on hazards)??



EDIT: AHem... Problem caused by me being wussy with the scotch connectors and not nipping the metal bit down across the wires properly,   Jason had a go at them and now it's all working fine....

OOPS!


So I learned 2 things - how to fit scotch connectors (never done it before), and that the indicator relay is a seperate one from the Hazards relay - Hazards relay seems to be LED compliant - normal direction indicator is not.. The Hazards relay is really loud clicking the direction one is not.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2010, 18:42:55 by loonymoon » Logged

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loonymoon
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« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2010, 11:14:16 »

Hmm, I'm still not entirely happy with this indicator bulb set up I have.

On yesterdays rideout I was following the X8 125 for a little while which has the standard setup of bulbs and I was noticing how pink they are and not obvious in bright sunlight. However when we stopped some the chap who was behind both of us said he reckoned he could see the X8's indicators better than mine which were replaced with LED bulbs.

This was a disappointment as when I tested them (LED's one side, normal bulbs the other) I reckoned the LED's were both brighter and more amber...

HOWEVER I  think that the angle of view is very important with these LED bulbs. When I put them in I tried to angle them so that for a person sitting in a car behind would get the full benefit of the LED's reflecting off the reflectors in the indicator housing. However if you're positioned either higher up (on a bike) or to a side this may not be the case and you probably do just see small bright pinpricks of light which aren't that noticible in bright sunlight.

These are the LED bulbs I got on Dave Milne's recommendation:



I can't see any other LED's in the W5W configuration that would have more diodes at more angles. So is there any way I can diffuse the light a bit more to get it bouncing round the reflectors more?

Or perhaps I should angle one bulb in each housing at a different angle to the other (there's two each side) so that there's more chance of seeing at least one of them from different angles of view???

Other wise I may have to go back to the original bulbs which are not at all satisfactory either (removing the resistors I installed as I guess if I put the original bulbs back in the resistors may cause harm??).

I wish I could just replace the entire indicator housing with a more sensible one!!
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« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2010, 11:22:51 »

When Ed was driving buses he complained regularly about just how difficult it was to see LEDs, even on vehicles which have them fitted as standard.
As you say, unless one is exactly in the right place/level to see them, they are invisible.

 
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loonymoon
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« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2010, 11:27:44 »

It's a pain as the only reason I changed them was because the standard indicators on the XEvo are rubbish, so it was not just a pointless mod. I think for the time being I'm keeping the LED's as at least at some angles they are better. I'll keep investigating alternatives though.

I'm currently looking to see if there's alternative bulb types. Finding them in Amber is difficult and there's less choice, but the originals are white anyway, I don't know whether a brighter White LED might help - but then they'd still be Pink just perhaps brighter so not really a solution either!!

Perhaps a small amount of tissue paper round the LED head might diffuse the light enough to get it less directional???  Desperation here (though LED's shouldn't get hot so might actually be an idea??)

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loonymoon
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« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2010, 18:17:24 »

Well I got the new LED bulbs and they're absolute rubbish do I'm going to try to send them back, they're far worse than the ultraLED towers. So what I've actually done for the time being is replaced one of the LED towers each side with the standard white wedge bulb, and left one each side as the LED... I'm not happy with that arrangement but reckon perhaps it gives the best of both worlds??? I've got spare LED towers and normal W5W's now if any blow.

I'm wondering if normal capless W5W's but in amber would solve the "pink looking" indicator problem. If I do that though I guess I'll have to remove the resistors. I'm also not sure whether using the resistors in the current half LED and half normal bulb form might cause problems? Dave M or anyone care to comment?
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