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Author Topic: X9 Battery Problems!  (Read 22352 times)
VieuxBarbados
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« on: April 03, 2007, 13:24:04 »

Hi all,

On Saturday i decided to give my bike a good scrubing which it had not had in some time....

Unfortunately, my head was sky high and the saddle remained unlocked for about 3 to 4 hours whilst I was cleaning the bike. The underseat storage light sapped the battery and when I tried to start the engine nothing just the drone of the starter motor.

This happend on saturday. I put the bike on charge (with one of those optimate chargers) but today still nothing in fact seemed worse!!!

The charger does not indicate the battery as being completely dead and yet when I try to start the bike nothing. Now I know that these chargers are only technically supposed to keep the current battery charge and not of the professional type.

The question is what should I do. Leave the current charger on for longer, will it finally charge the battery? Buy a more effective battery charger? Call someone out to me, but how much would this cost and who to call (I live in North London)?

Thanks for any advice.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2007, 13:27:27 by VieuxBarbados » Logged
jimc
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« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2007, 13:52:20 »

What exactly happens when you try to start?

If digidash display flickers etc then the battery is probably knackered.  

If the headlight doesn't dim and yet you can't even hear the starter relay close then check kill-switch, side stand switch, and whether the brake lights work.  If the brake lights don't work check the third fuse from the left inside the glove-box.

If the starter relay 'buzzes' then the battery is knackered.  

If the starter relay clicks but the starter motor doesn't turn then the starter relay needs cleaning/replacing.

If the starter motor just manages to chug a few turns, then the battery is knackered.

Of all the above, the most likely is a knackered battery.  Buy a replacement 14AH one, and give it a full 'forming' charge before using it for starting.

Oh, and an Optimate III is the perfect professional charger - but it isn't a quick charger, wait until the green LED comes on.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2007, 13:55:52 by jimc » Logged

Jim Crowther
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« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2007, 14:01:23 »

Have you de-sensitised the Optimate?
I seem to remember Humph posting ages ago that you need to short the two wires to cause the optimate 'sensors' to reset or the charger reports incorrect battery state (and presumably acts on it too).
Can't exactly remember what you do but presumably you do it unplugged from the mains.

You could charge it on a car trickle charger but don't let it exceed 25% of the battery capacity for any length of time or it will damage the battery permanently. Connect it up and as long as after a few minutes it settles down at about 1.5-2 Amps it will be fully charged in 2 hours.

If you do end up getting a new one, get a 14 A/hr size.
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VieuxBarbados
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« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2007, 15:28:54 »

Right and what is the cheapest call out service for this - considering I have the dreaded topbox- in London? Ta
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joyce
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« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2007, 15:32:48 »

I can't find the original post of John's but here is what you need to check.

Beware of 'ghost readings.' See technical section about ghost readings given by the Optimate. To cure a possible false reading, plug the Optimate into a mains socket. Switch it on, then switch it off. Now rub the 2 metal ring ends of the Optimate leads together, to cancel any previous ghost reading. The reason for switching off at the wall is now self evident. The 2 leads + and - cancel previous readings. This advice comes from my Master Dealer who uses Optimates to fettle the batteries in their workshop. You sometimes might get a reading saying that your battery is a dud. Hence the advice to rid its memory of the previous reading. This method works. It happened to me. I phoned my dealer who gave me this advice.(John H).
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« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2007, 14:23:40 »

From my experience with the X9 the battery has been the biggest problem.

Tried  all the usual things like removing the underseat bulb.

Tried the Optimate but it just eventually cooked all the liquid out of the battery.

My local dealer advised me that the absolute best solution is to disconnect the positive connector from the battery until you need to use the machine. It works.

regards,  LW
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joyce
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« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2007, 14:45:24 »

LW, I have never had any problems with the X9 batteries or the Optimate which is made specifically for bikes. I don't know anyone who has to disconnect the battery when not in use - quite the opposite. Many members who dont use the bikes throughout the winter have found the bike starts up straight away without any problems. I think your dealer is avoiding finding out what's the cause of your battery discharging.
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« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2007, 15:12:10 »

Regular disconnecting the battery could in theory be the worst thing you could do as the ECU and especially the rather sensitive Immobiliser could be damaged by momentary 'flashing' of the power during connection.  
The clock eprom which also carries the service interval timer reminders is also discharged each time and other minor irritants like loss of trip meter readings.  
I still advocate for trouble free ownership:- RIDE THE BLOODY THING - DON'T STORE IT  
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JJ
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« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2007, 17:37:07 »

I'd agree with all of the above.

Last winter, for reasons I won't bore you with, I didn't touch my X9 at all from December to March and it started first time and did Jules' after a simular layoff.

What we have found though, is that the batteries have a finite life. In our old 125 X9  and both our current 250's the batteries have all given out, without warning at around the two year mark. Most recently on Jules' X9 a couple of weeks ago.

JJ
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g_orhant
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« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2007, 18:34:25 »

Quote from: joyce
LW, I have never had any problems with the X9 batteries or the Optimate which is made specifically for bikes. I don't know anyone who has to disconnect the battery when not in use - quite the opposite. Many members who dont use the bikes throughout the winter have found the bike starts up straight away without any problems. I think your dealer is avoiding finding out what's the cause of your battery discharging.



I have had the exact same problem with the battery(ies) of my 125 EVO, (and it's my second 125 EVO!!!) Every 4 to 6 months the bloddy battery dies on me (even with the light bulb removed from under the saddle) It's a bloody nighmare (especially with the top box to remove everytime). Has anyone found a solution to this huge problem? (my oxymizer is of no help). If not, what would be the best possible battery to get for an X9 EVO 125?
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Mr.Chips
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« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2007, 19:18:02 »

One for a 500. Some will fit.

   
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Derek
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« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2007, 21:34:12 »

Have a look in the gallery for the back plate mod and you won't have to take the topbox off
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jimc
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« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2007, 23:24:07 »

if you still have to take the top-box off you haven't kept up at the back, and more worryingly neither has your dealer, who presumably has never checked the battery at service time either.

With a standard Piaggio top-box fitted the minimum time for removing the back-plate is now officially four seconds...

Get a 14AH battery, make sure it is given an initial forming charge *before* fitting, and it should last well over three years, with a very occasional top-up from the Optimiser in cold weather when you have done many short journeys.
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Jim Crowther
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g_orhant
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« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2007, 15:48:41 »

Quote from: jimc
if you still have to take the top-box off you haven't kept up at the back, and more worryingly neither has your dealer, who presumably has never checked the battery at service time either.

With a standard Piaggio top-box fitted the minimum time for removing the back-plate is now officially four seconds...

Get a 14AH battery, make sure it is given an initial forming charge *before* fitting, and it should last well over three years, with a very occasional top-up from the Optimiser in cold weather when you have done many short journeys.




Thanks Derek and Jimc    . I DID have a look a the gallery / Mod before posting. I am however a bit puzzled as to how to do it, but never mind,  as I've had a permanent oximiser lead fitted a long time ago. But neither of these would prolong much the life of my battery (ies)!!!  

I have looked at everything within the X9 club and outside and I have e-mailed JT about his knowledge of the matter As so far I'm stalling (no pun intended) and I can't seem to find a solution to the matter.

1) Has anyone been able to permanetly fix the issueand if yes how?

Which leads me to the only "less worse" solution I can think of: Try to find the best battery ever for a 125 X9 EVO

2) I'm understanding the best possible battery for an X9 125 would be a YTX14-BS at 14 Ah featuring the new AGM technology. Would you guys concur?


Thanks for your help.
 

G.O.


 
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Dave Milnes
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« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2007, 21:56:51 »

http://www.tayna.co.uk/item/3385/0/YB14L-A...4L-B-page1.html
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jimc
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« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2007, 23:08:54 »

That should do the trick.

On a 125, be careful always to minimise current drain when unnecessary, so heated grips, 'both headlights on' etc are not advisable except when absolutely necessary.  The 125 has minimal reserve charging power, and the size of bike tends to mean typical journeys are short.  Those who do 10-mile+ journeys each time are probably OK without optimisers etc, others should consider using one such at least once a week.
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Jim Crowther
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« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2007, 07:57:21 »

I would recommend adding in a switch to kill the headlight if only to be able to keep it off while starting up and for a few minutes at the end of the journey just to give the charging system a chance.
If you have heated grips, retro fitting a standard lighting switch in the blanked off space is easy and you can use the first (sidelights) position to activate the headlights, and the second position for the grips. Use the switch on the -ve side of the main headlamp relay trigger and the earth for the grips then you aren't having to interfere or re-route and main wiring.
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2004 X9 500 Evo in YELLOW - 2016 Maxsym 600i Sport
Anderton 2004, Pen-y-cae 2005, Matlock 2006, Hay on Wye 2007, Minehead 2008, St Florence 2010, Newent 2011, North Kyme 2012, Betsw-y-coed 2013, Hardraw 2014, Parkend 2015, Whitby 2016, Mundesley 2017, Derby 2018, Telford 2019, Loch Doon 2020, Cumbria 2021.
g_orhant
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« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2007, 10:48:47 »

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jimc
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« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2007, 12:54:03 »

Quote from: g_orhant
3) In term of mods    

a) The access to the battery when a top box is present
I Don't really get the mod from the gallery description.   If all is needed post - mod is to remove the small back screws under the seat, then how does the back plate holds (when it used to be held by 2 massive screws). Also how does the black plastic part from under the seat moves (which is held by the two little black screws) to gain access to the battery? More details would be helpful on this mod, which seems to be so crucial
The two massive screws did absolutely zero in terms of mechanical strength.  So they are binned.  You finish up just by unscrewing the two small black screws and lifting off the back-plate, no other parts are affected.
[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
 The light switch. That seems like a great idea:
- I don't have heated grips
- Isn't it illegal to ride with no lights even during the day nowadays?
[/quote]
No.
[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]And if not, any advice as to how to install one? Or better where to have one installed at a cheap cost in / near London NW?)
[/quote]
Buy a switch, and attach wires as appropriate, perhaps using relays[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
- I read on the Forum LED clusters instead of lights would make a significant change to the battery life. What is your view? Are they cheap? Are they easy to install for a non-handy guy like me? And where could I order them on the net?[/quote]
http://www.ultraleds.co.uk/
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Jim Crowther
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g_orhant
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« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2007, 15:13:18 »

Thanks for this Jim. I don't think the mod of the switch is within my remit, unfortunately.   I'll park that one for now. Re the LED clusters, thanks for the link. Do you know which ones I should buy? I have no idea. Is this a simple case of exchanging the lamps and screwing the leds instead?

Re the battery access mod. I'll give it a go, but it seems to me the 2 big screws in question were maintaining the back plate in place, other wise it's going to fall on the first sleeping policeman. Maybe I haven;t quite understood the mod but I'll try and see what it gives and come back to you. Thanks again for all this advice!  

G.O.
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