X9 Owners & Riders Club

The X Files ~ The Piaggio X Series => X10 Specific Stuff => Topic started by: Mr Nozzle on February 03, 2019, 12:36:51



Title: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: Mr Nozzle on February 03, 2019, 12:36:51
Hi all, I disconnected the battery to clean the terminals and have a prod and a poke around, put it all back together with no spare parts left over  ;) and after starting I get the flashing 'code' LED on the dash, even when I turn it off. I've had a look in the manual and found that the LED relates to the immobiliser. Do I have to do anything to cancel this LED?


Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: spannerman on February 03, 2019, 17:11:30
Is it requiring the master key to be inserted?


Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: Mr Nozzle on February 03, 2019, 18:52:36
I tried that mate, no difference. The LED also flashes whilst engine is running.


Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: chippyzip on February 04, 2019, 16:04:14
I must admit, I've never come across this- and I've disconnected the battery loads of times. Have you the original workbook manual that came with the scooter? I'll have a look at mine to see if there's a solution to this!

Graham


Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: chippyzip on February 04, 2019, 16:28:09
Ok,

This from page 46 of the original manual that came with the scoot..

Immobiliser device enabled indicator LED (01_41)
The activation of the Piaggio immobiliser system is signalled by the a flashing indicator (A) provided
In order to reduce battery discharge the indicator LED turns off automatically after 48 hrs of uninterrupted functioning.
Should the system fail, different LED patterns will provide the Authorised service centre with information on the type of fault detected.

Operation
Each time the ignition switch (B) is removed while the OFF or LOCK positions,the protection system activates the engine lock. Turning the ignition key  (B) to ON disables the engine lock., provided that the safety system recognises the code transmitted by the key. If the coded is not recognised, turn the ignition switch (B) first to OFF and then back to ON again.If lock persists, try again using the (A) MASTER KEY. If the engine cannot be started, contact an authorised service centre which is  provided with the electronic equipment required to detect and repair the system.
When the supplementary starter keys are required, remember that all the keys whether new or existing should be programmed.
Contact an authorised service centre and bring the (A) MASTER KEY and all the (B) starter keys you own.
The codes of starter keys not submitted for the new programming procedure are deleted from memory. Any lost starter keys will therefore not be enabled to start the engine.

  
So, it would seem by these instructions that the master key should provide a solution!

I hope this helps, let us know how you get on!!



Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: chippyzip on February 04, 2019, 16:30:07
It would seem that the letter B is replaced by a smiley face!!

Graham!


Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: Mike H on February 04, 2019, 16:44:39
IIRC the dash loses its memory if disconnected. But should only affect C or F units for temperature, the time clock, trip counters memory and mph or kph units for same. Also the ASR loses its calibration, I think, so needs to be redone. Cos all of that is such a faff when I changed the battery on mine I plugged another small bike battery, with a diode, into the cigar lighter socket to keep all the settings.

BUT, I have before pulled all the fuses on the blue X10 which seems to have the same effect as disconnecting the battery.

However If you had a real problem with the immobiliser it wouldn't let you start it?







Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: Mike H on February 04, 2019, 16:48:11
I found that same bit of blurb and was going to post it, but thanks.  :D

Silly question time - are you saying red LED flashes after engine started?

As said in blurb above, it's supposed to flash after ignition is turned off, for up to 48 hours.




Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: Mike H on February 04, 2019, 17:08:40
I can't find my X10 service manual  :(

But it says in there something about error flash sequences for that red LED. Does anyone else have that manual? Looks like I've deleted all my copies!  :o



Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: chippyzip on February 04, 2019, 18:03:06
I have the X10 500cc workshop manual, https://manuals.wotmeworry.org.uk/Piaggio/Piaggio%20X10/ but there's no mention that I can see of the flash sequences for the red LED there...

Graham  :(


Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: Mr Nozzle on February 04, 2019, 19:42:21
Thanks for all the replies. The light flashes once every second, even when engine is running. I've tried starting with the master key, no change. I've tried the master key to on, then off, then normal key on, then off. No change. As you mentioned, the bike starts fine. I'll ride it to work tomorrow and see if that resets it.


Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: Mr Nozzle on February 04, 2019, 19:53:44
https://manuals.wotmeworry.org.uk/Piaggio/Piaggio%20X10/X10%20350ie%20Exec/x10_350ie_workshop.pdf
Page 89 of the workshop manual covers the immobiliser, I've had a quick read but it doesn't mention anything about the light still flashing whilst engine is running.


Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: Dave Milnes on February 04, 2019, 23:01:20
http://x9ownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=17636.0      not sure if this will apply to an X10 but did you disturb this when poking about?
http://x9ownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=24887.0      is the error code, but yours isn't in error or it wouldn't start so this is for information only really.

My guess is that the LED is either getting ground or a +ve feed from a source other than where it should do, so a wiring cross circuit or damp or something relatively innocuous. If it were a true immobiliser problem it wouldn't start and run. Sometimes low battery can cause odd errors as the ECU isn't fed the correct amperage/voltage and does odd things. Also you have to be careful not to keep flashing the battery terminals when connecting them. Try disconnecting the earth and giving the battery a good charge then reconnect cleanly.


Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: Mr Nozzle on February 05, 2019, 13:37:14
Thanks Dave (and everyone else!), most helpful. I did rock the killswitch whilst fiddling the day it happened, I will investigate further. I rode to work this morning and the LED is still flashing every second, most distracting whilst riding in the dark! I suspect the battery maybe weak as I did have starting problems, hence the battery inspection and terminals clean up project the other day. Starting has now improved with cleaner terminals, fires up first time now. The battery voltmeter reads 14.1v whilst running / riding and cranks at 10.6v.


Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: polecat on February 05, 2019, 13:54:24
it will do no harm charging the battery i've found that a weak battery will cause any number of weird problems especially with these italion thorobreeds
polecat


Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: Mike H on February 05, 2019, 18:56:52
I have the X10 500cc workshop manual, https://manuals.wotmeworry.org.uk/Piaggio/Piaggio%20X10/ but there's no mention that I can see of the flash sequences for the red LED there...

Graham  :(

Ah thanks, that might be it.  :thumbup:




Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: Mike H on February 05, 2019, 18:58:50
Thanks Dave (and everyone else!), most helpful. I did rock the killswitch whilst fiddling the day it happened, I will investigate further. I rode to work this morning and the LED is still flashing every second,
Well as said this is not covered in the manual, neither is it "restricted to 2,000 rpm" if key not recognised.




Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: Mr Nozzle on February 05, 2019, 18:59:55
It's sorted itself out, when I left work to ride home, started and no flashing LED. Is this because she is Italian and just needs some kind words and compliments?


Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: Mike H on February 05, 2019, 19:16:47
Probably!  ::lol::



Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: Gav on February 05, 2019, 20:52:44
:huhlol:almost certainly,  have owned 10 i' ties, still have six and they may well all benefit from a bit of Dolcha Vita to stop any Devarish  tendancies  but to be fair in realities, I have experienced few temperamental electric and mechanical things with mine, maybe because I dont follow thw Mantra and try modifying this or that until they go wrong. :thumbup:
That said rectifyer solenoids also seem archiles heels, spragg clutches on Rotax powere ones, had had two of those only prob, changing the bleed nipple stuck solid in the thrust bearing , changed the whole rubber sealed plunger, which was conveniently behind the rectifier, and endless panelling needed removing too, to get at it,on my fist 1000 one, a Futura, after which the EFi light kept flickering on, however if I turned it off then on again it had stopped, and ignored sage advices discussing it on the Aprilia AFI sight, on the relavent strand :whistle: of course, Reset the ECU, no more light.



Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: Dave Milnes on February 06, 2019, 07:48:01
It's an old adage about 'Italian Electrics' being poor but mostly they are OK. Connectors are what they need to get right. The Japs all use the proper waterproof type but whether they have a patent that prevents them being used commercially except by the Japanese I wonder why no-one else uses them. Mind you I still greased up the Forza as it was made in Italy despite being Japanese.


Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: bustupbiker on February 06, 2019, 12:59:53
all the modern cars use them Dave..


Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: Mottza on February 06, 2019, 16:32:01
Are they made in Italy now. The first Forza's like mine were made in Thailand.


Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: bustupbiker on February 06, 2019, 18:52:23
Italian designed and built so i have been led to believe ..
Goes like thingy off a chrome plated dodar
Lyn.


Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: Mottza on February 06, 2019, 21:15:11
They don't hang about. My Forza with K&N filter and Dr Pulleys runs really well.


Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: Mr Nozzle on February 16, 2019, 13:38:50
10 day update. No more issues with the LED. Starts each time now on the first try. The past few days when starting though, first thing in the morning, I get a message come up on the display saying "LOW". I have the display set to show battery volts so I suspect it is the battery that's on its way out. I've purchased a new one and will be fitting next week.


Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: Mr.Chips on February 16, 2019, 13:41:32
 :thumbup:

 :ph34r:


Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: Mike H on February 17, 2019, 17:57:39
X10 battery can go down quickly if you're not careful. Handbook says put a charger on at least once a month if not using the bike. I found once a month was a bit too uncomfortably borderline, so I opted for every two weeks instead. Handbook also says charger must not exceed 14.5V and do not leave on for longer than 5 hours. I used to have mine on a timer, in case I forgot to go disconnect it in time. But not necessarily for the full 5 hours, just whatever was necessary. Incidentally I still use this regime for the Ural, or whatever else.




Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: Mr Nozzle on February 17, 2019, 19:45:40
Thanks for the info. I'll be using pretty much daily to be honest. Maybe the odd week here and there where it won't be used. I did contemplate wiring in two extension terminals to a block and keeping under the seat for such periods. Another project added to the list!


Title: Re: Immobilser LED flashing after battery reconnected
Post by: Mike H on February 18, 2019, 17:15:43
In its favour, forgot to mention, the X10 charges at idle. Handbook actually says, if not using, once a month start it up and let it idle for 15 minutes. I used to do that, then over a longer period I found the starter could be taking more out the battery than was going back in, duing 15 minutes, expecially if recalcitrant to start in cold weather. Hence I followed that with a quick charger session after.