X9 Owners & Riders Club

I have recently sold my X9 250 SL and now own a low mileage X10. It has come fitted with Michelin City tyres and my impression after 2 weeks is despite appearing virtually new they are AWFUL ! I have had a couple of front end scares already which after 20,000 miles on the X9 having never lost the front is quite worrying. I find the bike doesn't like to turn in and fights to stay upright. I was convinced the brakes were seized but they are not. What tyres would be the OE ? I fitted Diablo's to my X9 and had complete confidence whatever the conditions.
Anyone else have any opinion ?

What you describe is not typical for the X10 and I had no such problem on the O.E. tyres from new. I suggest you check your steering head bearings which can often be tight from the factory and can quickly become notchy. I am now running Michelin Power Pure on the rear which is better than the original so far.

The head bearings don't appear too tight and aren't notchy YET !
I had that issue with the X9 and took a few attempts to get the new set tightened correctly.
I will drop into my local dealer later and get their opinion.
What are the OE tyres ?
☺

The OE tyre is the Michelin City Grip and they're excellent tyres (unlike some others used for OE).

There are many people on here running City Grip on many different scooters, I have them on X9 250 & 500 & SH125, they have excellent all weather capability but are sensitive to under-inflation, check you have right pressures.

Must admit I had a few front end scares on my X10. I ended up putting Power Pure SC's on.

Afraid I have to agree with poldark and roadster, also have city grip as OE and I also think yes they're not as good if soft. The OE fitment is city grip 'summer', there is alternatively 'winter' but finding someone that sells them seems difficult.

Tyre pressures are bang on and tested regularly. My X9 had leaky rims so became a two day habit. What sort of mileage would you expect to get from the Michelin Citys ?

Don't know yet!

Is your tyre gauge accurate, I was surprised to find what I'd been relying on for years exaggerates by 3 - 4 psi. Even so bike still handled OK, only difference was a slight sort of squidgy feeling from the tyres.

What psi are you running, Piaggio like most manufacturers quote a generic tyre psi recommendation irrespective of the actual tyre fitted. Appreciate they're now OEM for an X10 but I don't believe Piaggio change recommendations as they source different rubber.

I emailed Michelin UK when I fitted City Grips into my X9 500 and I therefore use 32/36 (f/r).

Yes I have two of the old school type.
:-)
33 and 35.

Is the tyre fitted correctly, there are arrows on it, and it's on correctly if it looks wrong, if you know what I mean. Wheel bearings?

I reckon it's probably the head too tight. I have it booked in for replacement shocks and have asked them to check the tightness. Good to know the original piaggio dealer in Southend not only used the wrong oil on 2 services but also failed to pick up on the shock recall. Not surprised to learn they are losing their dealer status !
I will replace the Michelins with Diablos soon.

Having had a bit of time to reflect and look again I think these tyres could actually be the originals ? The tyres appear quite new but if you examine closely they have the aged appearance within the tread. I presume bike has been run gently long distance possibly as edges are like new. This would explain the difficulty leaning over the hump ? What sort of mileage does one get from the summer city grips ? I am just looking to order some new tyres and see what the result is .....
Yes I did check rotation was correct. Tread pattern wasn't obviously wrong but I checked anyway as rightly this could be an issue.

Longevity is reportedly very good with City Grips, varies depending on many factors especially with a heavier scoot, but it seems that 8k+ miles is quite doable.

http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic67945 (http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic67945)

This seems plausible as bike now on 6k and loads of tread. I seem to remember this problem years ago on my CBR1000 where to go lean over you had to exceed the hump. That may have been Michelin then too as I changed to Bridgestone and not experienced anything similar until now. I do tend to ride in all parts of the tyre on my commute as very mixed roads from b to a dual carriageway.
So do I go for the soft Diablos or ????

I've found the opposite, the OEM Bridgestone for Burger 650 have flat profile that's stable but slow turning.  I moved to Michelin Pilot Sport SC and found them much more nimble.

The City Grip aren't a sporty tyre especially, the Pilot Pure may be a better fit for you, I certainly wouldn't write off Michelin.

If they're going a bit 'square' that might be it.

I've worked it out recently that if I'm having some bother getting around a bend it's most likely because I'm simply going too fast. Just recently I was running out of road on a modest sized roundabout, guessed what the reason might be so risked a quick glance at the speedo and yes it was >20 mph. Well no wonder! I still have to watch it with the X10 40 feels like 30 and 30 feels like walking pace, especially after a motorway blast.

The performance for a 330cc engine is surprising and I do use it fully even with the strange tyre situation. I have a long weekend coming up so will fit new rubber and give the bike a winter service. Grease everything up and drop the oil. New recall shocks coming the week after.
I am still dithering on the actual choice of tyre. I'm impressed the city grips have lasted but they must be pretty hard to do so ? I don't mind paying out for tyres if I get peace of mind .....

How many miles do you think the tyres have done?

As above the bike is on 6k now.

Diablos ordered.

New Diablos fitted this weekend. Bike is transformed completely.
Having a chance to examine the Michelins closely I could feel just how hard they were and were very cracked within the tread. Still legal after 6k so I don't doubt they will do a lot of miles but at what cost in handling ?
I will add a review of the Diablos in a few weeks .....

OK then so the Michelins are basically fcuk'd, despite having plenty of tread left.

Very interesting! I might expect 10+ yr old tyres to start showing signs of hardness and cracking but, assuming this X10 is one of the first ones in 2012, and the tyres are originals, that's only 3 years!

Unless they've been damaged like constantly exposed to sunlight or something like that.

Where from?

Oponeo.co.uk

The Michelins were 2012 tyres. Date of production is in an oblong box on wall of tyre.
It was the front that had significant cracking within the tread that made it look much older. Now whether this is down to the bias of weight on the front end or just the way the previous owner rode it of course I have no idea. Both front and rear were as particularly hard but not anywhere near worn out.
I would definitely rather replace my tyres more often than ride with those tyres again.

Coincidentally about the same sort of time, viz about a couple of years ago, there was a 'bad batch' of Avon Roadriders that also got a bad reputation for Avon by developing cracks between the treads, and at no age at all and with plenty of tread left. It is spookily similar!

And with certain Michelins in the early 2000s - a problem with tyres delaminating - not funny at 60MPH.

Ask me how I know! :o

They were replaced free of charge.

 :ph34r:

Need a little advice re. tyres.

I have had my X10 500 since new a couple of years ago. I wasn’t happy with the standard tyres, felt ok in town but on windy mountain roads especially in the rain they felt suicidal, so took advice from another member and had Power Pure fitted. Felt good, especially at speed on autoroutes, but discovered they are very suseptible to correct pressure - under inflated they are very edgy.

Today had light rain on the mountain road home, after a period of long dry summer. I hadn’t ridden for a while and I had two back end slides. plus a little sideways slip on take off. Just felt uncertain. Made me a little nervous!

I read about Pirelli Diabolos. Can anyone offer advice. Are they sticky in the wet? Are they better than Power Pure? This is for a 500 X10.

Riding is narrow mountain roads - urban - shortish autoroute runs at 120+ kph.

Any advice?

Thanks
John

Presumably your X10 doesn't have traction control (I thought they all did). When roads become wet after a dry spell they will be slippery and unpredictable. You can't necessarily see what tractors, lorries, and cars have left on the surface, not to mention run-off water if you are riding in mountainous areas. No tyre will give enough grip to reach maximum lean angle or accept full throttle from start off in those conditions. You should take the back end slide as a warning to take it easy because if the front end goes you will be off. Most of us  have had at least one fall to learn this. I am using power pures at the moment but I have run Diabolos on other scooters and bikes in the past. Both good tyres in my opinion and not significantly different in the wet.

You mention tyre pressures and its worth saying that not all tyre pressure gauges are accurate. I have three and also two pumps with dial gauges. Only two of these are trustworthy.

Are you expecting too much from your scooters roadholding? I also ride a KTM and the difference is massive. The X10 will always feel bad when I swap back so I ride accordingly.

Very fair points. Thanks.

My X10 500 does have traction control (as you said - they all do)

On reflection, I think you are correct in saying that perhaps I am expecting too much from a scooter. I had an X9 for  year or so, then got the X10 2 years ago. Previously I had bikes. 750 and 1000 Suzukis. There is a big difference! My wife's 125 piaggio is a great little shopping trolley, but the X10 does not handle as well as a bike! I lean heavily into corners. Bad habit on the X10.....

appreciate the comments.
John

Hi John
Hope you are well. I never felt confident on the X10 in wet conditions always felt the back or front would slip away. I solved the problem by switching to the Burgman, no traction control and despite this is so much more sure footed. It is on the Bridgestone Battlax TH01 replacements as the TH01 is no longer available. Covered 11000 miles in 12 months with never a hint of losing grip.
Regards
Frank

The early ones only did if they had the 'Executive' tag. Else not. (Nor ABS.)

Now they all do and 'Executive' seems to have been dropped. This confused me when I was looking to buy the new one, no ads for new machines mention it, nor Piaggio's latest brochure.

HTH

So far so good. Tyres are performing perfectly despite greasy road conditions typical for this time of year. I'm covering about 210 miles a week and temperatures have ranged from 2 to 20 degrees C over the past 10 days. I will update with a report on wear when relevant.

Traction control is different to ABS. The X10 500 had ABS and Traction Control the Burgman just has ABS.

After some umming and ahhing I've decided to bite the bullet and purchase a pair of City Grip Winter, to see what they're like. My main reason is for the amount of tread they have on them.

What is it with modern bike tyres these days? I find myself taking much exception (!) to this modern fashion that has developed surreptitiously for 'semi slicks', you know, a bald strip around the centre line and a few artfully placed, delicate scroll like, snipes to the sides.

Also I recently sold my BMW boxer 800, but before I did I had bought for it a new pair of Continental (I think) 'Classic', "especially made as OEM for old BMW '70's - '80's R-series boxer twins" (::lol:: only BMW!  :D )

Anyway, when I first clocked them I thought blimey I'd forgotten how much tread motorcycle tyres used to have in the old days! :o  Never see this semi-slick nonsense with car tyres, at least I haven't. They still seem to have buckets of blocks and grooves and things.

I am still quite nervous about riding in the wet since I stacked and wrote off the blue X10 end of March, all I did was lean into a bit of a curve while trying to exit a flyover ... I say 'trying', 'cause I didn't make it.

Can't seem to get 15 inch size for the front in the UK, (max seems to be 12") can from Italy via eBay, but I also found a German based firm Tyreleader, anyway we shall see!

The German "Heidenau" tyres are in the tests allways just a little bit better in rain as the City Grip, but both are very good tyres for rain. The Heidenau are also sold in a "Winter" Version here in Germany.

I should mention the blue X10 DID NOT have city grip on, front was a Continental something-or-other, rear was a (practically new) Avon Vyper Strike.

It was the front that had let go, to be fair there was very likely spilt diesel under the surface water, which that location is often prone too.

Before I forget again, were fitted Thurs 19th. Delivered the previous week.

Again just remembered to write this ~ have now done two reasonably long journeys on these now, on a mix of roads (82 miles and 103 miles). Second trip on mix of dry to dampish to actually wet tarmac. Can definitely say I can feel them sticking to the road. As do the Summer version but the Winter ones more so. Front 33 - 34 psi, rear 35 - 36 psi.

Mike H
When you had your off, did the ASR 'traction control' do anything. I assume not.
With the mixture of tyres fitted, it may have needed re-calibration.
I've never done it, but Beverly still has her original boots (8000 miles), so it has not needed doing yet.
I will probably get some winter grips if they sell them in the UK.
Spanners  

Front wheel let go on spilt diesel, all I did was start leaning it over on exiting a flyover. (A bit too exuberantly for the prevailing conditions, possibly. [Wet roads and gusting to gale force.]) Maybe 20 mph if that. I wasn't braking or accelerating or anything, so neither ASR or ABS were activated. I suspect might not have been going fast enough for them to either.

I think if ASR needs recalibrating you get solid lit ASR dash light, but not sure offhand.

If it stops flashing first time you start moving off then it's saying it's OK.